khukuri weight as a weapon

B

bstephens59

Joined
Nov 16, 2001
Messages
4
HI everybody,
I saw a few years ago on cable tv I saw a forensic show where
a man had been attacking somebody who had a machete. This guy had been hit several times including the head and he kept on coming,I remember he had been hit more that 10 times but don't remember exactly how many. Then they had another body of a man who had been in a fight with somebody who had a hatchet. He had been struck 3 times. The third time was in the head,it penatrated the skull and he met his maker. The conclusion a martial arts friend and me had is that it had to be the weight that made the difference.
I am sorry for such a morbid topic but the trend seems to be lighter is better for a weapon and I don't know. Perhaps a better question is how big can I go and still be fast enough to use as a weapon. I have herd of ancient stories of khuks being used in battle and the gurka soldier burried the blade from his enemies head to his sternum. I really dought that this was done with an 18oz knife.
Thanks

Bruce
 
Interesting consideration. I think much depends on your skill in martial arts. Since I have little skill I'd probably opt for a 20 inch Ang Khola. I get one shot. If I hit I win. If I miss I lose. No ability for fancy stuff.
 
bstephens59, welcome. I don't know how to respond but to say there are so many other attributes of a khukuri than to focus on its' ability to penetrate and kill. Mass and mometum is a essential part of the equation, but it is hardly worthy of meditation.

Focus on life and enjoyment, not death and destruction with a khukuri.

All the best,
Sam
Life member American Legion
Life member NRA
Life member UDT/SEAL ASSOC.
 
Bruce,

If you are really interested in this morbid subject I would suggest you get a copy of John Minnery's How to Kill (Paladin Press 1973). The original six volume set has been reprinted as a single volume, and it contains a lengthy discussion on how to efficiently kill. The khukuri even gets mentioned a couple of times.

I value khukuries as tools not weapons. You can pickup virtually anything as a weapon; it is your determination that will determine how leathal the "weapon" becomes. But, when it comes to finding a good tool, there are few choices that perform as well as camp knives as a good khukuri.

n2s
 
There are two factors contributing to the energy of a blow: the force (from your arm) and the mass (weight) mostly from the knife. Force is proportional to mass, and proportional to the velocity squared (times itself). Translation - the faster you swing, the more energy, the more weight, the more energy, but increases in speed give you bigger increases in energy.
(Also, longer knives have more force at the tip, because the blade tip must move through the same arc as your arm. Your arm makes a small circle, the tip makes a big circle, so the tip moves very fast when your wrist moves sort of fast.)

Another factor is intertia (the tendency of an object to keep moving) If I remember correctly, inertia is proportional to mass, so the heavier your blade is, the less likely it will deflect.

A third factor is how well the knife is made. If a knife bends or breaks, energy goes into changing the knife, and it does less damage.

I think the big difference between the hatched and machete is the intertia - the heavier hatchet transfers more energy than the light machete, so it does more damage.

Sorry if that was abstract. It was fun to think about.
 
The first two books are okay, but the rest is fodder. There is no way half of the contraptions he comes up with would be practical or time/cost justified. I think Minnery may be making up some of his credentials...

Keith
 
There is no way half of the contraptions he comes up with would be practical or time/cost justified.
Click to expand...

:) :rolleyes: ;) :p :) :rolleyes: ;) :p

I haven't a clue; I am not an assassin and I don't pretend to be. But W.E. Cayote probably used Minnery to come up with some of his road runner traps. As least we know the shoe gun in book III is real - we saw it on TV's Get Smart. :D

Now tell me you didn't have fun reading about, the poison daggers in book VI, the Gurkha Mortal Portal trap in book V, and Twerp Ops in book IV. It's an imaginative collection of often silly dirty tricks for the would-be mall assassin, with some (very low quality) photos thrown in of knives and other odd James Bond-like contraptions. But, it does cover the original subject of this thread, so kickback and enjoy.

n2s
 
I've been in contact with Bruce for a couple of years via phone and email, maybe more, and he is one of the most polite and gentle individuals you'd care to run across. Has a beautiful little girl, Sara, that he dotes on and I can see why. She's a real little doll. His original post is so out of character it quite surprised me but he is a martial artist and a curious and developing one.
 
Unless an attack is sudden or fierce just the sight of a khukuri is often enough to quell anyone's ideas of violence.
You should've seen some of the raised eyebrows I got when I showed a few people my little 13" wasp waisted balance model that wanted to see it!!!!
The ones that come to my place know what to expect and it's no surprise when I pull out my 27" beautifully worked Bura made Banspati. The eyebrows raise in admiration instead of shock or surprise.
I just wish the handle was made of horn or something besides brass, damn that stuff stinks when you get it on your hands!!!!:barf:
 
Seems like a fine topic to me since its directly about khukuris. Its not the most pleasant thing to think about but khukuris are weapons as well as tools, and like it or not some of us may be forced to use them in the first case against our will by an attacker. So, Bruce wanting to know which khuk might save his life vs. get him killed I think is a very important question.

Perhaps a better question is how big can I go and still be fast enough to use as a weapon
Click to expand...

This is not meant as a cop-out, but I think that totally depends on your strength and agility. I can swing anything up to around 23oz (my malla's weight) fast enough to feel comfortable in a fight situation (keep in mind I'm not a M.A., nor a fighter), but balance and feel of the particular khuk has a lot to do with it. How "forward feeling" the balance is vs. how close the balance is to the handle are definite factors in a weapon khuk's usefulness IMO. I would say that you couldn't go wrong with a 18"siru of about 18-21oz, GS same deal, Kobra 20" same weight, etc... and I'm sure this is very subjective anyway.

There are alot of MA guys around here, hopefully they can give you some "been there done that" advice that's 10x more valuable than mine.

Hope it helped some
 
Hi everyone,
Please forgive me if I offended anyone.And thanks Uncle Bill for your kind words.
One of the many things I like about khuks is the multi uses
and a khuk is first a tool.
In the late summer/fall when I have been chopping up fire wood and such I favor thr heavier blades. In the winter I practice with rattan sticks and favor the lighter ones but with the idea that i am practicing with a weapon if it needed to be. My question is how light is to light. Again my sincere apologies to everyone.

Bruce
 
I have never been one to dream of ninja's, read martial arts stuff, war mags, equipment mail order...you get the drift. Few times things have been life and death last thing I wanted to do was shoot someone. Never had to. That said, this topic is absolutely OK. What is all the attention given to the Ghorkas if not OK?

It is disingenious to own and use weapons and tools without understanding they can kill. My khukuris are tools. If I had to, they would be weapons.

I'm with bill, one swing would tell the tale.

I'm glad this thread was here. Even if it fell flat on it's face with some readers, we try and try again. If forumites are not comfortable bringing out questions and observations, taking a risk, then why have a forum at all?????
If I wouldn't have asked Yvsa about Eagle Feathers, I would not have known about the federal penalties for gathering them off the ground, and might have done so.

munk
 
I for one see no need to apologize for posting on this forum with the thread you started. If some one doesn't like what is being said on a thread, the best thing to do is go to another thread and cease fire with the snide, and wimp comments. We don't need to get another of the threads started like we have already gotten rid of.
I liked the way you handled that one Yvsa, KOOL:D :D :D
 
Don't people who study these things know the answers? If you strike fast you have a greater chance of success. The strike may not be debilitating, but may start the process.

Bill said in the shopping site the WWll may be the best combination of tool and weapon.


munk
 
Certainly, Uncle Bill has been handling Khuks for a good amount of time, and then there had to be a reason why the WW11 was so widely used during the war. Yes, Uncle Bill is probably very correct.:)
 
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