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Kitchen knife with outdoor look/feel. Go or no go?

Discussion in 'Kitchen Cutlery & Tools' started by MP Morgan, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. MP Morgan

    MP Morgan

    Mar 19, 2019

    What's your first reaction to this? Good or bad? Suggestions? This is just a quick sketch of a kitchen version of this one:


    You can see the current progress of the bottom one here: https://www.instagram.com/morgan__picks/

    Feedback and suggestions are welcome!
    Bigbadgoth likes this.
  2. Seesteel

    Seesteel Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 7, 2018
    :thumbsup: Nice. I like it. What about more blade+length and lowering-slightly the thumb rise part?
  3. MP Morgan

    MP Morgan

    Mar 19, 2019
    Thanks. I may lower it a bit to see how it looks. And will probably shorten the tail up to the scale and add to the length. I have a 240 mm long piece of Vanadis 4E I may use for this knife. Think it could make a new kitchen favourite!
    Bigbadgoth and Seesteel like this.
  4. David Martin

    David Martin Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    That is no kitchen knife. One may use it for food prep as we use various blade shapes for food processing. DM
    Lapedog and jc57 like this.
  5. MP Morgan

    MP Morgan

    Mar 19, 2019
    Well, it can be a kitchen knife.. I would like to try a more solid type of kitchen knives, inspired by outdoor knives. Just for fun, and to see how it feels. I don't feel like making a classic kitchen knife, I want it a bit tougher.
  6. HwangJino


    Dec 2, 2012
    Sorry I like a simple handle thats easy to clean, nothing for food to get stuck in.
    Complicated handles make it weird to use different grips.
    jc57 and David Martin like this.
  7. Fixall

    Fixall Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 26, 2018
    Good looking knife and I'd definitely give it a go in an outdoor setting. It looks like it would do a good job skinning deer/elk.

    As a kitchen knife, probably not so much. Here are my thoughts.

    The blade stock looks to be much too thick to perform at the level I would want from a real kitchen knife.
    Gunk from my hands will get stuck in the holes while I'm prepping food. If you're are looking to save weight, I'd much prefer a skeletonized or grooved tang.
    Not a fan of the jimping up top. It looks like it would impede a pinch grip a bit.
    I don't see any use for the extended tang. There's not enough surface area to use it as a mallet or anything. Just seems like it adds weight and length.

    I like that you toned down the quillon/ricaso area so the knife can be brought all the way down to the cutting board.

    Not sure about the sharpening choil.
  8. Barman1

    Barman1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 21, 2013
    Multi-use is more of the impression I'm getting.
    Plug the holes, lose the sharpening choil and finger guard, and as you said lengthen the blade back to where the finger guard "was".
    A bit more belly would work to get some rocking on a cutting board.
    Find a happy medium with blade thickness to be tough enough for camp chores and nimble and thin enough for proper slicing.
    jux t likes this.
  9. Hurrul

    Hurrul Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 26, 2017
    I like the blade shape of the top rendering, but echo an earlier post about the jimping and thumb ramp combo. Personally, the thumb ramp gets in the (my) way when choking forward onto a blade.

    With how you have contoured the handle as well as having an ample finger guard, I don't think jimping would offer much advantage for grip security, unless using gloves with your thumb on the spine.

    How thick is the steel stock you will be using? Thin is good, even in outdoor styled blades.
  10. ace

    ace Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2000
    It would be better to take a kitchen knife you like and beef it up in the areas you feel are weak, you'll end up with a better kitchen/camp knife.
    hughd and jc57 like this.
  11. MP Morgan

    MP Morgan

    Mar 19, 2019
    You guys are having good points! I think I will pass on using the steel I have right know for at kitchen knife. It's 5.2*50*240 Vanadis 4e, I better make a tough outdoor knife. It's too thick.

    I still like the overall shape, and the thought of a outdoor'ish profile. But it have to be modified for kitchen use.

    Going to try a design without jimping. Holes are only there because I were lazy when drawing, they won't be there in the final scales.

    Looking forward to get the outdoor knife back from hardening monday, then I'll know much more about ergonomic and feel. And how Vanadis 4e feels at 62-63 hrc. Then I'll look into designing the next one. There's a lot of things to take into consideration, and being new to knives, thought go in a lot of different directions.
  12. The Zieg

    The Zieg

    Jan 31, 2002
    No go.

  13. 420 Stainless

    420 Stainless

    Mar 5, 2019
    Hollow ground blade is no good in the kitchen. Wedge ground blade produces food slices, which is the whole point of a kitchen knife.

    Rocker is a must in food prep. Or a specialized blade for boning, fillet. Kitchen knives are half of the food prep. They work with the cutting board. Watch a skilled chef work with these two tools.

    Each blade shape in the kitchen has a function.

    Handle scales with holes collects food. Most kitchen cutlery has molded handles, per Health Dept. specs.

    It's a great looking knife! In a leather sheath, on a belt, in a deer stand! It's not gonna work in a kitchen.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
    MP Morgan likes this.
  14. David Martin

    David Martin Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2008
    I own several hollow ground kitchen knives and they cut right with a full flat ground blade. So, if done right both grinds work. Most kitchen knives are a flat grind. Usually a Sabatier shape blade is where you'll see the rocking style cutting in use, with vegetables. But in boning and slicing I don't use a rocking style cutting. Nor do I use a Sabatier for this. DM
    MP Morgan likes this.
  15. ace

    ace Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2000
    Hollow grinds can work in the kitchen and some do well, flat grinds too, but the most popular for high performance chef knives are some sort of convex or s-grind and the variations of the two. Flat grinds are ok for knives that are not very tall and that mostly deal with hard materials. Tall chef knives that cut wet, soft stuff need to have food release since it is pretty annoying when pieces of what you cut stick to the blade face so hard you can't shake it off. Rocking is also not the only way to cut in the kitchen, people who use high end Japanese style kitchen knives rock very rarely. So depending on the type of knife you are designing and the preferred cutting style you need to think about grind and shape. Kitchen knives are not just a scaled up version of a outdoor knife, they are a whole different animal.
    Hurrul and MP Morgan like this.
  16. KenHash

    KenHash Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Primary issue is how thick is this blade? Just about every "outdoor" knife I know will split/crack an apple instead of slicing it. Second is the grind, same issue. Third is the handle and all the comments others have made.
    MP Morgan likes this.
  17. milkbaby


    Aug 1, 2016
    5.2 mm is way too thick for kitchen duties on a knife blade where the bevel grind only appears to be 25-30 mm tall?
  18. Shotgun


    Feb 3, 2006
    This here but you’d be surprised at how thin you can go on a woods knife. Moras are 11 degrees per side and that’s 1095. V4e shouldn’t be a problem though I’d go a little thicker than 11 per side. 5/32 or 3/16 with a shallow zero convex would be the bomb.

    I guess I’ll diverge a little again and say there’s enough belly there. It doesn’t need more imo.

    I like the angle of the handle in relation to the blade. Should work nice on a cutting board...or log as the case may be. ;)
  19. bikerector

    bikerector Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    I think it looks nice, but maybe more of a "camp kitchen" knife than a kitchen. I know there are forum members that use a hunting knife in the kitchen regularly, and I have as well, but I think that one may be a little bit much, depending on how weighty it gets.

    I think the biggest thing a kitchen knife needs is to get the edge away from the handle so the knuckles have space on a cutting board. Either from blade angle, blade height, or the belly. I think weight and balance follow that up pretty quickly. Of course, it needs to cut well too.

    One of my favorite outdoors knives turned kitchen knives is an interesting one from Eastern Europe that I thought would be a regular carry for hiking but it was too nice for the kitchen so it stays there now. I think it has similar elements to what you're looking at, but it looks a lot less over-built than your rendering.

    This thing is a mean veggie slicer with a FFG, maybe a slight convex, but it very thin and pretty well balanced. It's not a full-size kitchen knife but it works great for everything I don't need a full-size chef's knife for.

    Here is the same knife compared to a spyderco military and then my camp knife that got some inspiration from the above knife, but is much thicker and a little longer. I like the forward lean of the knife but I more intended to show the different spectrum of an outdoor's knife that worked well in the kitchen and one that I wouldn't use in the kitchen, with some fairly similar gross design ques. The spyderco military does pretty well in the kitchen also.

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