Knives: Tools or Weapons?

Peter Atwood

Peter Atwood

Joined
Oct 26, 2000
Messages
2,468
I often read here that knife knuts regard their knives as tools and not weapons. The public's perception however varies widely and many people feel that a knife (any knife) is a weapon. Personally, I would not think of the knife I carry as a weapon. Even if I was in a dangerous situation I doubt that it would occur to me to pull out my folder and try to defend myself with it. It just wouldn't occur to me to use what I perceive as a tool as a weapon.

That said, there are others who would readily use the knife they carry to cause harm. That knife could be a Chinese POS or a kitchen knife or maybe even a Tom Mayo TNT. Who's to know what is going through the mind of a knife owner?

The question is, how can we knife knuts turn a blind eye towards the fact that our beloveds tools are also powerful symbolic weapons in many people's minds. I think that's the crux of the issue too. Knives are very ancient tools and they have certain symbolic places in human culture. SO how to reconcile this conflict?
 
Just because a knife is a tool does not mena it is not a weapon. All weapons are indeed tools. Most tools can also be used as weapons in one capacity or another. I think the most important thing to show the public is not that we carry tools rather than weapons. I think the most important thing to show the public is that knife owners and carriers are generally responsible citizens.
 
I see the problem being the word "weapon". I personally do not have a problem with that word or it's meaning. A knife is a tool and a weapon. So what!!! Would I ever use a knife to hurt someone... only if my family was in danger. What are the chances that would ever happen? Very very slim!!!
 
Both or neither. Is a beautiful "art knife" a tool or a weapon? No, it's ART. I think it would depend on how the knife is being used at the time, that defines it.:).
 
I agree that the best course of action is to demonstrate to the public that we are a responsible bunch. I try to do that very thing every day when I show people the knife that I'm carrying and explain that I made it. I get a variety of reactions.

My question though, I guess, is aren't people justified to a certain extent to feel threatened if you pull out your EDC to cut a loose string and it's an auto MOD Duane Dieter CQD full size, black with nasty serrations? This is common sense and of course the responsible knife owner is going to reach past the Dieter and grab the slip joint that is sitting in the bottom of his pocket to cut that pesky string without alarming anyone.
 
I'd rather have someone pull a knife on me than be forced to get into a car that Ted Kennedy was driving. And that is not a joke.
 
bfm, that is the kind of thinking that I would hope to avoid with this discussion. It is as wrong to assume that only liberals are against knives and consider them to be weapons as it would be to consider all conservatives to be pro knives and treat them as tools. The reactions that I get from people in daily life are quite varied and range from heartfelt interest to recoiling in fear. And political affiliation does not play into it. Reactions to knives are much more visceral than that. Hell, for all you know, Kennedy may carry a slipjoint folder....probably not! :)
 
I don't think it is necessarily more responsible to use a slipjoint instead of a tac knife. It is no more responsible than driving a cavalier instead of a Corvette. The tac folder and Corvette have higher capabilities than the other, but it is all about the user and his control. A well rounded adult will not attack another with the meanest neastiest blade while an unblanced individual will attack with a pakistani slipjoint. Many people do not want to carry several knives. I know that around campus I usually only carry one or two knives. If it is one I take a tac folder because it is useful in the widest variety of situations. Knifemakers could make some truly wicked looking knives that would be unsafe to attack someone with and some plain harmless looking blades that are lethal weapons. People need to get over it really. The knife is not going to jump out of someone's hand or pocket and attack. People today harp on not judging people by the way they look, and it is good advice for the most part. They should take their own advice and not judge the knife by what it looks like. Each should be judged by its individual actions and merits.
 
Tool *and* weapon - what's wrong with that?

Many of the knives I carry will function as quite handy weapons, if need be. I don't have a problem with that - pretty much anything I can grab can be made to serve in that role.
 
I might draw a lot of fire with this remark, but I think the knife's primary value as a tool greatly diminishes when certain functional designs are abandoned and instead the size and style become a focal point. I am referring to folders here, of course.

When the practicality of what should be a relatively compact design, with blades made for utility, is sacrificed for aggressive blade shape and size, then the knife's primary function is as a weapon. And I have no problem with this. If one wishes to carry a concealed weapon, that should be his choice.

Examples include the REKAT Sifu and Camillus Cuda Maxx.
 
I agree.

Furthermore, I'd like to see more folders with sizeable, grippy handles, solid locks, and sensible, smallish utility blades. Something like the Spyderco Gunting without the ramp and pointy bits, and with a more work-oriented blade.

Those of us with big, somewhat arthritic hands would applaud this!

I dislike having to choose between small/dainty, and big/scary.
 
I definitely agree that the value of the knife as a tool is diminished in the case of certain design characteristics. My Mad Max is not going to be as useful for daily cutting chores as my SERE 2000. The SERE is an excellent utility knife and would also make a decent weapon.

I'm not really sure what it is that I'm trying to get at with this whole discussion except that it would be nice to find some ways to keep the awareness of our tools and toys in a positive light where the general non knife carrying public is concerned. I'm really fed up with the relentless daily newspaper articles about people being stabbed to death. The media focus is generally so damned negative. The fact of the matter is that almost everyone uses a knife every single day in the kitchen.
 
What about those certain blade shapes that make people automaticaly assume it's a weapon instead of a tool. For instance, as you can tell from my name and sig.line that I like MT Vectors. A great blade shape a cross between a hawksbill and wharncliffe. VERY VERY offensive looking, almost up there with the SPyderco Matriarch. Why is it that some people take blade style into consideration when deciding whether it's a weapon or a tool. Personaly to me it all depends on how the owner intends to use it. For instance, when people ask me why I carry a "weapon" I place my knife open on a table or whatever's close and ask them if the "weapon" is hurting them? Of course they say no and I simply tell them that it's not the knife that's the weapon it's the person who uses it with malice that's the weapon. Just my two cents.
 
Folders are great tools. However, I do not agree with a general movement to making folders more "harmless". Some of us only have the option of carrying folders. Since that is the case I would like to carry the folders that I feel most comfortable with and have the best attributes for self-defense.
 
or how about if I run you over with a car; or strangle you with a rope; or how about I hit you over your head with a can? or choke you with my hands?
Anything can be a tool and a weapon.
Yes, there are some knives that looks more menacing, but one should not believe that even a menacing tool always is a weapon.
I found a clawhammer menacing, but it's still a tool.
 
I agree. My mother tends to think my knife collection is a weapon collection. I told her listen, if I wanted to kill someone I would go to the hardware store and spend 10 dollars on a hammer and end it at that. That could do more damage in one shot to most people than a folding knife could.
 
I think that I'm with the majority in this thread, that the user's intent is what's important, not what the individual decides to use as a weapon. The public's fear of 'weapons' is misguided, so what we really need to work on is getting people back to being responsible for their own actions. Unfortunately I see no easy way of going about that, at least not effectively.
 
They are whatever you want them to be. My Mini Commander might have been designed to be a weapon, but I don't use it as such. I carry my knives as tools. Most people just assume that they're weapons. I was showing some friends my Calypso Jr, and one of them said, "I don't know why you carry that, you couldn't stab anyone with that short blade." A lot of people are obsessed with the idea of carrying weapons, these people tend to watch too much TV.
 
Of course we who appreciate a fine knife understand that it can be a tool and a weapon at the same time.
As a police officer I think of my knives as a tool and my pepper spray, baton and gun as weapons. My knife is used to cut flex cuffs, seat belts, rope, Donuts, and clean under my fingernails.

In the legal sense it it boils down to intent and the definition of the law. In Texas a 5" blade is a prohibited weapon, on the other hand if I do a traffic stop and see a golf club in the car I might ask why there's just one club in the car. If the answer is "protection" :rolleyes: I could take you to jail for a prohibited weapon because of intent.

As for informing and teaching the public, that's a tough one. web sites like this one help. Last night on sattelite TV there was a show that sold mostly slip joints by Case, Hen & Rooster, Boker, etc BUT, everytime he showed a CRKT, Smith & Wesson, Kershaw or other "modern" "tactical" type of folder it was described as an Armor peircing blade
:eek: That does nothing to help the collector and only enrages the general public. There isn't a knife out there that can't go through ballistic armor, ballistic armor isn't designed to stop a blade. It's designed to stop a bullet ! whole diferent animal.;)
 
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