god bless... as well as the faculty others

[This message has been edited by pk (edited 20 April 1999).]

Multiple Deaths at Colorado High School
Sheriff: As Many As 25 Dead, Including 2 Gunmen

.c The Associated Press

LITTLETON, Colo. (April 20) -- Two young men in fatigues and black trench coats attacked students with guns and explosives in a suicide mission at a suburban Denver high school Tuesday, and the sheriff said 25 people may have been killed. The gunmen were found dead in the library.

Several students said the killers - believed to be former students at Columbine High School - were gunning for minorities and athletes.

The gunmen were found dead with devices on them that authorities said could be bombs.

''It appears to be a suicide mission,'' Sheriff John Stone said.

At least 20 people were wounded at the 11:30 a.m. attack. Shots ricocheted off lockers as the gunmen opened fire with what students said were automatic weapons. One girl was shot nine times in the chest.

''At first we thought it was fireworks, then we saw them shooting,'' said Jake Apoeaca, 16. ''He saw us and then he started shooting at us. Then a guy in a white T-shirt threw two hand grenades on the roof. We hit the ground and then we started running.''

Many students dived to the floors and sprinted for the exits. Dozens of students hid in classrooms before escaping with the help of police in an armored car. Others were trapped for hours while SWAT teams searched for the gunmen.

At one point, a bloodied young man dangled from a second-floor window, his right arm limp, and was helped down by two SWAT team members. His condition was not immediately known.

The sheriff said 25 people may have been killed, students and teachers alike. But by early evening, officers had yet to remove any bodies because of the danger of explosives and the need to preserve evidence. FBI agents and police SWAT teams slowly made their way through the building.

A third young man was led away from the school in handcuffs more than four hours after the attack. Sheriff's spokesman Steve Davis said that suspect was believed to be a friend of the gunmen but did not take part in the attack.

Wes Lammers, 17, was among several students who said the gunmen were targeting minorities and athletes at the 1,800-student high school.

Other students said the killers might have been part of a group of eight to 10 students who wear black trench coats every day and are known as the ''Trench Coat Mafia.''

''They are jerks,'' said Jason Greer, 16. ''They are really strange, but I've never seen them do anything violent.''

For hours after the attack, wounded victims lay inside the building and police were unable to get to them.

Outside, hundreds of officers from throughout the Denver area surrounded the school. Frantic parents were sent to a nearby elementary school, where they searched for word of their children. Some students had called their parents on cellular phones from inside the building.

Teen-agers hugged parents and each other and wept and they recalled the shootings.

As TV images of the scene were broadcast nationwide, helicopter ambulances used a sports field as a landing pad, and officers in helmets and camouflage gear took cover behind squad cars. Students who fled the building wept and held their hands above their heads while police frisked them.

Three youths wearing black - but not trench coats - were stopped by police in a field near the school. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation said the three were friends of the gunmen who were being taken in for questioning.

Witnesses said the shootings took place around the school, including in the cafeteria and library.

''We heard the gunshots and we were running,'' said Kaley Boyle, a junior.

''They walked down the stairs and they started shooting people,'' said a student who gave her name as Janine. ''We didn't think it was real and then we saw blood.'' Her voice broke with anguish as she spoke.

She said it was two young men, wearing black trench coats.

''They were shooting people and throwing grenades and stuff,'' she said. ''Me and my friends got to my car and drove off. ... We saw three people get shot. They were just shooting. Then something blew up.''

Columbine High is in the middle-class suburb of Littleton, population 35,000, southwest of Denver. Nearby schools were locked down, with students prohibited from entering or leaving for hours.

Littleton became the latest American community shocked by school violence. Since 1997, a series of school shootings have led to calls for tighter security and closer monitoring of troubled students.

Two people were killed in an attack at a school in Pearl, Miss., three at West Paducah, Ky., five at Jonesboro, Ark., and two in Springfield, Ore.

Baseball's Colorado Rockies and basketball's Denver Nuggets postponed their Tuesday night games.

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

I think Iam going to be sick......

This is going to be a double whammy for us..Not only do we have to deal with the tragedy, and worry about it happening to our schools, but we have to worry about the new laws that the Schumers and Feinsteins are going to enact to protect us from such things...

What is sick about the whole mess is that the parents of the killers would have been able to prevent this sort of thing if they were truly parents. It may not be them who pulled the triggers, but they created the monsters that have done this.

It is if the children are born without souls..


God is dead. -Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead. -God
No Yek, the children are not born without souls. Hold your newborn in your hands and look into its eyes. These child-monsters' souls were stolen by some evil perversion of the child-raising process. Having kids is easy. Helping a child metamorphasize into an adult you are proud of is a serious piece of work.
A prayer for the victims, a prayer for the families, a prayer for the rest of nation who will end up dealing with the fall out and a prayer for those who committed the atrocity. Anyone who would do something like that needs help.

We don't have enough problems, we really need more little S***Heads doing things which have consequences they don't understand.
It is sad...And I think someone should have seen this coming with these two kids...They were fairly sophisticated, as they set a destractionary pipe-bomb on a timer before starting the rampage, they booby-trapped the car they came in, and they booby-trapped themselves...I would think that someone would've seen something...but maybe not...In the coming months, be prepared for the backlash...

You know **** like this does not happen in other countries. What is it with us (US). I know we live in the BEST country in the world (Maybe Austrailia could argue) but man do we sure have some screwed up goings on here.

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

I'm quite sick of the nature Vs nurture debate. Sure, parents have no absolute control over the psychological development of their children, no parents in the world do. But you don't see this same stuff happening in any comparable country either. The inescapable conclusion is that there =is= something wrong in this country. And that something is distinctive to this country.

There is a tradition of violence in this country. We have always glorified the individual capable of great violence. Not many societies would view Billy the Kid in a favorable light.

When you have such a culture impregnated with the current mindless, and soulless display of gratuitous bloodshed in the entertainment industry today, there you have it, a formula for disaster.

Access to weapons is another problem. There is no getting around it. If those kids didn't have firearms, they could not have killed 25 people. If we are not willing to remove the accessibility of arms, we have no choice but to reduce the appetite to use them.

If anyone get a copy of LTC Dave Groomsman's "On Killing", I would encourage him to read it. He describes the psychological barriers against killing, how the army developed methods to overcome them from WWII to Vietnam. And how this same method of indoctrination has been inadvertently picked up by the entertainment industry.

I realize this is not the only cause of the problem, but you can't say it's not one of them. IMNSHO

First of all, I'd like for everyone to keep in mind that sometimes there are conflicting reports and that the facts will have to sifted out for a bit.

Having said that.
I wish peace to the families of those involved. I wish peace to the members of this forum. May justice be served.

I feel really bad also. Its sad when things like this happen. Also paired so close with the incident in Salt Lake. We live in troubled times. But I'll tell you what is wrong. It that Damn Rap music. Poison for the soul. I know this is a huge problem the blame on music but when someone listens to something for hours that talks about killin' Dis'ers it will rub off on you.

Your attention please as this will not be on the news yet.

It is believed the gunmen were part of this group. Please check out this site.


Perhaps those in Gunforums and The Firing Line would like to see this as well.
Damn! Damn! Damn!

And prayers for all concerned, and hope that Somebody is listening!

Of course, this incident will be seen by all and sundry as proof of whatever they already believed about kids, culture, violence, weapons, hell in a handbasket, and all.

adam - millions of people listen to rap music with seemingly no problems. if anything, i think heavy metal has just as many bad influences. also, alternative music is pretty bad. heard any marilyn manson lately? it is much worse than any rap music, imo. maybe we should outlaw music?! unless you were kidding about the rap music? i have heard a lot of people blaming the entertainment industry as a whole. i am not quite sure why. i would like to hear more on that, as i don't fully understand the reasons.

i agree with what tallwingedgoat wrote. very well said!

I am sure someone from here knows someone who was killed, the world is a small place. May they soar on eagles wings.
Oh Lord, may our prayers rise before you like incense.
May our uplifted hands be as an evening sacrifice.

Oh Lord, set a guard over our lips that no evil words may pass.
Let not our hearts be drawn to what is evil nor let us join with evildoers.

Oh Lord, let our prayers be ever against the deeds of evildoers.
Let the wicked man learn that our words are well-spoken.

Oh Lord, you are the God of heaven and of earth.
By your word, you created this world.

Oh Lord, you are the God who still works mightily, who orders all things.
You have promised to work for good in all things.

Oh Lord, put your hand over our mouths lest we speak where we have no place.
By our own foolishness, we might accuse you of some wrongdoing.

Oh Lord, we have not walked on the depths of the ocean floor.
It is not us who gives the horse his strength or sends an eagle soaring.

Oh Lord, forgive us if we should misunderstand today's events.
In our grief, we may not see your hand at work.

Oh Lord, forgive us for our despair.
Sometimes, it seems to us as though there is evil all around us.

Oh Lord, forgive us for our sense of loneliness.
In our frustration, we forget that you are with us until the end of the age.

Oh Lord, forgive us for our anger.
Remind us that vengeance is yours alone.

Oh Lord, forgive us for our accusations.
At times like this, our human nature wants to blame.

Oh Lord, for your son Jesus sake, forgive us our sins.
Set our sights on doing what is right.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort your people. There is crying and there is pain.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort those who lost children, spouses, loved-ones and friends.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort those who are injured, some who may not fully heal.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort those who have been traumatized, whose lives may never be the same.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort those young students whose lives have been so horribly disrupted.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort those who feel they failed to prevent this tragedy.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Comfort your people.

Oh Lord, out of the depths of our despair we cry.
Comfort your people.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Send your holy angles to guard these people.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Let Satan have no dominion over these people at this vulnerable time.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Guide those in authority that they may respond properly.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Guide us all to react to this tragedy with restraint and wisdom.

Oh Lord, hear our prayer.
Help us all to forgive even the troubled boys responsible for such terrible deeds.

Oh Lord, in your mercy, hear our prayer.

Oh Lord, we thank you for your many blessings.
You have blessed us with emergency workers who respond to such troubles.
You have blessed us with medical workers and technology to heal those injured.
You have blessed us with good government that preserves and restores order.
You have blessed us with ministers and counselors for those tramatized.
You have blessed us by keeping safe the vast majority of those involved.

Above all you have blessed us with your Son, given in death,
that those who passed from this world today might have eternal life.

Oh Lord, we know that you work for good in all things.
We know that, as hard as it may be to see and accept, somehow some good must come from this.

Oh Lord, we pray that you would heal us from our grief today.
We pray that you would heal this nation from the plague of violence that infects us.

Oh Lord, violent events distract us from you.
Bless our nation with peace that your work may be preached and received by all.

Oh Lord, from whom all good blessings come,
give us, your people, the true peace that the world can not give.

Oh Lord, into your hands we do commend all for whom we pray,
trusting in your mercy and asking that your will be done.


Sorry for the length. I pray as the Spirit moves.

No one will make sense of this, and nothing good will come out of it. After the Jonesboro, Arkansas shooting there were calls for banning guns, fighting the "southern gun culture", and endless candle light vigils. It is evil in its pure form and there is no good that will ever come from it, there is no moving on to a better place. Nothing but Prayer can have any effect on this kind of inhuman behavior.

Remember Paige Herring, killed in the Jonesboro, Arkansas massacre.

Rude Water Herring
I hate guns... never have liked them. I'm a knife person, myself. It takes skill to use a knife. A two year old with a gun is dangerous.....

All that aside-
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

The entertainment industry is not to blame. I wish people would stop using that as the ultimate scapegoat.
If the blame rests on the entertainment industry, then what was Hitler's problem? Atilla the Hun's? Caligula's? Caligula had no TV or boom box radio....... Sure, there are isolated incidents that are triggered by entertainment (Manson/Helter Skelter), but to point the finger blindly is to deny and ignore the real problem. It's sadly reminiscent of the Salem witch hunts....
The problems lie within the disturbed psyches of the individuals. There is a time bomb there that would have been set off sooner or later whether it be by a song, a TV show or even a poem or novel. It's the law of nature.... every one out of so many is going to be unbalanced in some shape form or fashion. As the population grows, the percentage grows, and in turn the number of unbalanced individuals also grows. It's just so convenient that we live in an "entertainmet industry" world so that becomes the scapegoat. Hell, it could have even been the internet........

I have to agree with Frank Zappa on his point of view....
If the music industry was so damn influential, then there would be more people falling in love than anything else because there are more love songs than any other kinds of songs.

This incident is nothing less than a tragedy. Tragedies take place every day. This one just gets more recognition here because this is a "knife" forum and a lot of the "knife" people here are also gun/arms people and they are aware that they will feel the repercussions of whatever political backlash this incident may cause.

Let's keep everything in perspective...