Lock in Military & para-military models.

R

R.Taylor

Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
1,405
Which knife is better because of this ?
I have heard of problems with the military lock.
Is the para plagued by the same problem?
Which in your opinion is better the Militarys liner lock or the paras compression lock?
I would like one of these knives .
i appreciate any user input.
Right now i am leaning towards the compression lock of the para even if it is a little smaller blade>
thanks ,regards,Rick in Nfld.,Canada.
 
I've read Sal Glesser (Spyderco founder and designer) say on one of these forums that the compression lock on the Para is better than the liner lock on the military. That's as good an opinion as any. And it appears to be backed up by other posters.
 
That what i have surmised from the compression lock on my salsa. If it is the same?
I have not seen either para or military to compare .We have no Spyderco store here.
regards,rick.
 
There's pretty much no doubt that the Compression lock is better than a liner lock. The geometry of the Comp lock, the small amount of liner that is compressed, and the difficulty of opening it accidentally are all improvements over the lock on the original Millie. Not to mention that you don't need to put your finger in front of the edge when you close it.

If Sal can design a Compression Lock II that sucks the blade closed like a lockback (I kind of think it's possible, over a smaller radius), he'll have an Axis-beater.
 
I've mentioned this a few times now, and I'll probably stop doing so soon...

...the Para-military's compression lock lacks the feature of the blade springing back into the lock. I don't like this at all, other people don't mind. I cut my pants when I thought the blade was completely closed. This wouldn't have happend with a lockback.

On the other hand, some esteemed members of the board have stopped buying liner locks all together. I don't consider myself esteemed, but I wouldn't buy a liner lock.

Don't forget blade geometry when making your decision....if you search you'll find that Cliff Stamp says he prefers the military to the para-military in every way except for the lock.

Addendum: Hmmm...Shmackey beat me to the sucking point while I had a phone call..... :) It would be damn nice to have that compression lock ii....)
 
I just got a Paramilitary and there is significant Back and forth "blade play", although there is no side to side movement. I was pretty disappointed, I think I will stick with the Spyderco lock-backs.
 
Personally I very much prefer the lock of the Military to the lock of the Paramilitary.

As for Sal's statement about them, I think it was more to the fact that the Paramilitary's lock is stronger than the Military but not that one is better than the other.
 
Can anyone post a link where the military liner lock was faulty in a dangerous way?

The side to side blade play can be fixed by tightening the pivot.

I have had problems with the liner lock moving when the blade was moved laterally. I adjusted my pivot and now it is like a fixed blade. I think it's a wear issue.
 
The compression lock is much more secure.
 
Rick, if you hang around the forums long enough, you will find someone, and sometimes even a small group of people, bad-mouthing any given knife, Spyderco or otherwise. Every lock type has it's good points, each also has certain inherent characteristics that some will label as flaws. If one particular lock type stood head and shoulders above the rest, there would be far less of a variety of lock types available and little incentive to create new ones. Same goes for handle materials and, to an even greater extent, for steels - every one of them has both its advocates and detractors.

The Military has been on the market over ten years, and, as with all Spyderos has been refined over that time. It has sold well during that time, and that is generally a pretty reliable indicator that there are no major problems with a design. While it is a bit too large for my personal tastes in a pocket knife and the liner lock makes it a bit too right handed for me, I still can appreciate its good qualities. IMHO, it was not designed to be the strongest knife in the world, but rather to offer a 4" bladed knife that combined decent strength with extremely light weight. I do own one, an older Forum Model, and can still remember the sensation I got when I picked it - total disbelief - I felt way too light for its size and the thickness of its blade. I was, and remain, very impressed with the smoothness of its action and the way it locks up. If Sal ever decides to make a left hand version, I'll be waiting in line to buy one, and looking for a pair of pants with bigger back pockets so I can carry it.

The ParaMilitary, while a much younger and therefor less refined design, from everything I've heard is also a very well built knife. You really can't go wrong with either one, or with a Manix or Chinook II should you decide that your peace of mind requires the "suck the blade closed" action of a lockback. But do be prepared to pay a substantial weight penalty if you choose either of the last two, it's one of the less endearing, but inherent, features of a front lock.
 
The Deacon said:
You really can't go wrong with either one, or with a Manix or Chinook II should you decide that your peace of mind requires the "suck the blade closed" action of a lockback. But do be prepared to pay a substantial weight penalty if you choose either of the last two, it's one of the less endearing, but inherent, features of a front lock.
Click to expand...

Deacon...

I don't think the weight penalty has anything to do with the lock. I think it is just a question of the design. Look at the current (3rd. gen) Endura. It's huge, yet weighs only 3 ounces! Spyderco definitely has a hole in its product line...it is missing strong general purpose U.S. made high end lockbacks that don't weigh over 5 ounces!

But again, I think this is just a hole in their product line...not anything inherently having to do with the lockback design. Hopefully Spyderco will fix this soon with some new models. I'd love a lockback version of both the para-military and the military!
 
skcusloa said:
Can anyone post a link where the military liner lock was faulty in a dangerous way?

The side to side blade play can be fixed by tightening the pivot.
Click to expand...

It's not anything inherent to the military...it's instead an inhernet problem with all liner locks. There are lots of threads on this forum about liner locks.....including good explanations of the problem by (I believe) Joe Talmadge and Cliff Stamp.
 
Thanks guys for the info. I do appreciate your opinions.
Both the good & the bad.
Regards from Nfld. ,Rick.:thumbup:
 
Blue Man said:
Deacon...

I don't think the weight penalty has anything to do with the lock. I think it is just a question of the design. Look at the current (3rd. gen) Endura. It's huge, yet weighs only 3 ounces! Spyderco definitely has a hole in its product line...it is missing strong general purpose U.S. made high end lockbacks that don't weigh over 5 ounces!

But again, I think this is just a hole in their product line...not anything inherently having to do with the lockback design. Hopefully Spyderco will fix this soon with some new models. I'd love a lockback version of both the para-military and the military!
Click to expand...
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Mine differs. I don't believe, for example, that it would be possible to build the Military as a front lock without some increase in weight.

The liner lock design allows the liner to serve triple duty. It serves as a locking mechanism, structural stiffener, and hard point for clip mounting. Since the design is inherently "handed", the lack of provision for LH clip mounting is acceptable.

Built as a front lock, you would still need the single liner for rigidity and clip mounting. But to fully take advantage of the ambidexterity inherent to this type lock, a second liner becomes desirable, even though it carries an additional weight penalty. Even if you elect to ignore the needs of left handed users, and stick with a single liner, you definitely need a lock bar and lock spring, and a full (or at least more robust) backstrap to replace the simple screws and spacers that a liner lock requires. If you can manage to provide those without adding weight, and without weakening some other component of the Military, you are more creative than I am.
 
The Deacon said:
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Mine differs. I don't believe, for example, that it would be possible to build the Military as a front lock without some increase in weight.

The liner lock design allows the liner to serve triple duty. It serves as a locking mechanism, structural stiffener, and hard point for clip mounting. Since the design is inherently "handed", the lack of provision for LH clip mounting is acceptable.

Built as a front lock, you would still need the single liner for rigidity and clip mounting. But to fully take advantage of the ambidexterity inherent to this type lock, a second liner becomes desirable, even though it carries an additional weight penalty. Even if you elect to ignore the needs of left handed users, and stick with a single liner, you definitely need a lock bar and lock spring, and a full (or at least more robust) backstrap to replace the simple screws and spacers that a liner lock requires. If you can manage to provide those without adding weight, and without weakening some other component of the Military, you are more creative than I am.
Click to expand...

Deacon...

I'd imagine that you are right, it might very well take an extra .2 or .3 ounces.....just nothing that would put it in Chinook or Manix territory.

Of course, both of us are just speculating. There's got to be someone reading this who knows for sure. :)
 
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