Does anyone have any information on these knives? They are advertised to be incredibly sharp and durable edges, also non-magnetic which isn't a big concern for me . . . but the real issue I wonder about is brittleness, i.e. will these blades shatter if you drop the knife? Any feedback appreciated. thanks.
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Mad Dog Mirage X Ceramic
- Thread starter fishface
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Cliff Stamp
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Fishface, do some searching on Mad Dog's forum and you will see all kinds of reviews.
Note that while it seems that it is unlikely to shatter, Mad Dog has stated that is is likely to get damaged if dropped and that the warrenty does not cover this.
Personally I don't see this as a problem as I can't remember the last time I dropped a knife and the Mirage-X line have laynard holes anyway.
I would be much more concerned about chipping during everyday use. There have been a few reports along those lines that basically said don't be concerned about it.
-Cliff
Note that while it seems that it is unlikely to shatter, Mad Dog has stated that is is likely to get damaged if dropped and that the warrenty does not cover this.
Personally I don't see this as a problem as I can't remember the last time I dropped a knife and the Mirage-X line have laynard holes anyway.
I would be much more concerned about chipping during everyday use. There have been a few reports along those lines that basically said don't be concerned about it.
-Cliff
The Mirage knives do not "appear" to be sharp when you test them using the normal "steel knife" methods ie; fingernail, shaving your arm, etc. The ceramic seems to just take a diferent type of edge than a steel knife.
I used a Mirage Hunter at work for EVERYTHING and after 2 mo. it still did not need to be sharpened. It cuts rope and cardboard better than almost anything I have used and certainly stands up to the job longer. Really cuts up chickens well too
. Clean up is a snap as the material is pretty well impervious to anything (with the exception of hydroflouric acid, and when was the last time anyone screwed around with that).
Is the ceramic a direct replacement for a steel knife with some added features? NO. You must understand the strenghths and weaknesses of the material. Not everyone NEEDS a Mirage X knife. Most people would be served better by one of Kevins steel knives, but some of us want a knife that is different and some truly will make use of the knives unique abilities.
Take care,
Derek
I used a Mirage Hunter at work for EVERYTHING and after 2 mo. it still did not need to be sharpened. It cuts rope and cardboard better than almost anything I have used and certainly stands up to the job longer. Really cuts up chickens well too
Is the ceramic a direct replacement for a steel knife with some added features? NO. You must understand the strenghths and weaknesses of the material. Not everyone NEEDS a Mirage X knife. Most people would be served better by one of Kevins steel knives, but some of us want a knife that is different and some truly will make use of the knives unique abilities.
Take care,
Derek
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Chance,
If you do not like your Micro, perhaps you should sell it to someone who will make use of the Mirage X's more esoteric features. Many people have no need for some of the unique qualities the ceramic material offers.
If you do wish to sell it, let me know. We'd be more than happy to consign it for you!
To answer to question of breakage, I have a demo blade that I toss around at shows to demonstrates the toughness of the Mirage X material. It has literally flown over 30 feet in the air, straight up, then down onto concrete with nothing more than slight edge damage and about 3/16" tip breakage (which is comparable to the best steel knives on the market.)
Tim
<a href="http://www.streetpro.com">Street Smart Professional Equipment</a>
If you do not like your Micro, perhaps you should sell it to someone who will make use of the Mirage X's more esoteric features. Many people have no need for some of the unique qualities the ceramic material offers.
If you do wish to sell it, let me know. We'd be more than happy to consign it for you!
To answer to question of breakage, I have a demo blade that I toss around at shows to demonstrates the toughness of the Mirage X material. It has literally flown over 30 feet in the air, straight up, then down onto concrete with nothing more than slight edge damage and about 3/16" tip breakage (which is comparable to the best steel knives on the market.)
Tim
<a href="http://www.streetpro.com">Street Smart Professional Equipment</a>
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Here's a photo of that blade I was referring to in the last post. This has been tossed thirty feet in the air numerous times, bounced off walls, dropped onto concrete, etc.,
http://www.streetpro.com
http://www.streetpro.com
Cliff Stamp
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Tim, bottom line, does your warrenty on the Mirage-X lines cover damage from dropping?
-Cliff
-Cliff
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Mad Dog's warranty does not cover breakage from abuse or carelessness. If you break a blade from what constitutes normal use, or if it is due to defects in materials or workmanship, Mad Dog will replace the blade for free. If you need an edge touched up, repaired, etc., Mad Dog will usually do that for free as well.
BTW, I can't remember the last time I accidentally dropped a knife myself.
Tim
BTW, I can't remember the last time I accidentally dropped a knife myself.
Tim
Cliff Stamp
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So Tim your answer is no?
Don't you see a serious problem with your response stating that you have done a lot of testing on the Mirage-X line (some of which are really abusive) without harm, but yet stating that the warrenty does not cover the knife if any customer tried to duplicate those tests for himself?
In regards to the warrenty to what extent does it cover blade failure, what is considered a fault of the blade? If I dropped an operator which of the following would be covered under the warrenty?
If it shattered into a hundred pieces?
If it broke in half?
If it lost an inch from the tip?
A half inch?
A quarter inch?
One eighth?
And as for Mad Dog offering to touch up the blade for free that all well and good but it won't help if the blade cracks or sees significant loss in length due to the tip getting cracked off. Plus there is still the significant postage costs involved whenever this happens.
-Cliff
Don't you see a serious problem with your response stating that you have done a lot of testing on the Mirage-X line (some of which are really abusive) without harm, but yet stating that the warrenty does not cover the knife if any customer tried to duplicate those tests for himself?
In regards to the warrenty to what extent does it cover blade failure, what is considered a fault of the blade? If I dropped an operator which of the following would be covered under the warrenty?
If it shattered into a hundred pieces?
If it broke in half?
If it lost an inch from the tip?
A half inch?
A quarter inch?
One eighth?
And as for Mad Dog offering to touch up the blade for free that all well and good but it won't help if the blade cracks or sees significant loss in length due to the tip getting cracked off. Plus there is still the significant postage costs involved whenever this happens.
-Cliff
I am not one of KM rabid supporters that you may run into on another forum.
He makes great knives and charges a hefty price for them. My opinion on the Operator is totally unbiased.
Having said that. This knife will not break unless you try to break it by placing it in a vice or duplicating the ATAK series tests with it. Kevin McClung to my knowledge will do warranty work if it seems reasonable that your intent was not to destroy your blade.
He offered to reprofile a tip of an ATAK2 that had been blunted my digging. I'd be really surprised if you could break a Mirage series without trying. Just my two bits.
Having said that. This knife will not break unless you try to break it by placing it in a vice or duplicating the ATAK series tests with it. Kevin McClung to my knowledge will do warranty work if it seems reasonable that your intent was not to destroy your blade.
He offered to reprofile a tip of an ATAK2 that had been blunted my digging. I'd be really surprised if you could break a Mirage series without trying. Just my two bits.
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Cliff,
I understand your concern, and it is a valid one. The bottom line is this: if you are *using* your knife in a manner that a knife is intended to be used (e.g. not trying to jack your car up with it, cut an engine block in half, etc.,) then it is covered under the warranty.
Our abusive tests were to see how much abuse the blade will take before breaking, and our intention WAS TO BREAK THE BLADE. So far, short of placing it in a vise and hitting it with a sledge hammer, we have not been able to significantly damage the current Mirage X blades. Intentionally breaking a blade is not covered under warranty.
Keep in mind that the Mirage X ceramic has about 38% the tensile strength of Mad Dog's 01 steel knives (in similar configuration) so there are limitations to the Mirage X series knives. However, for specialized purposes, the Mirage X line has features that steel or titanium knives could only dream of achieving. As Derek Russell stated, the Mirage X is not intended to be a replacement for steel, otherwise Kevin would simply discontinue his steel line and only make Mirages.
Tim
Street Smart Professional Equipment
http://www.streetpro.com
949-888-1131
[This message has been edited by Arnistador (edited 03 December 1998).]
I understand your concern, and it is a valid one. The bottom line is this: if you are *using* your knife in a manner that a knife is intended to be used (e.g. not trying to jack your car up with it, cut an engine block in half, etc.,) then it is covered under the warranty.
Our abusive tests were to see how much abuse the blade will take before breaking, and our intention WAS TO BREAK THE BLADE. So far, short of placing it in a vise and hitting it with a sledge hammer, we have not been able to significantly damage the current Mirage X blades. Intentionally breaking a blade is not covered under warranty.
Keep in mind that the Mirage X ceramic has about 38% the tensile strength of Mad Dog's 01 steel knives (in similar configuration) so there are limitations to the Mirage X series knives. However, for specialized purposes, the Mirage X line has features that steel or titanium knives could only dream of achieving. As Derek Russell stated, the Mirage X is not intended to be a replacement for steel, otherwise Kevin would simply discontinue his steel line and only make Mirages.
Tim
Street Smart Professional Equipment
http://www.streetpro.com
949-888-1131
[This message has been edited by Arnistador (edited 03 December 1998).]
Cliff Stamp
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Tim I realize the reality of the Mirage-X line with regards to the durability aspect. Personally I don't have any problems with it, after talking to Earl awhile ago I ordered one and am confident that I will not have a problem with it or if I do he will take care of it, no worries.
My comment was just meant to reflect a consumers point of view (who is not familar with the mad dog line, and the standup nature of his dealers). It looks very bad for a vendor to say look at what this product can do, but then to also say don't try this for yourself. Anyone reading that immediately will look upon that as a snake-oil type of claim.
-Cliff
My comment was just meant to reflect a consumers point of view (who is not familar with the mad dog line, and the standup nature of his dealers). It looks very bad for a vendor to say look at what this product can do, but then to also say don't try this for yourself. Anyone reading that immediately will look upon that as a snake-oil type of claim.
-Cliff
Metal detectors are an absolutely moot point. There is NO metal in the knife anywhere, period. The sheaths of the composite handled knives have aluminum rivets but the operator/micro are better choices when concealability is an issue. The only thing that will detect a mirage knife is x-ray as the materials inherant density renders it radio opaque.
hope this helps,
Derek
hope this helps,
Derek
Derek,
You are completely mistaken about your idea that if something does not have metal it can't be picked up by a magnometer. As stated in other parts of this forum, it depends on the type of magnometer and what the device is looking for. To my knowledge there are only 5 test facilites which can test items to be Lo-Mu which is what MD claims. As far as I know to this date, one has never been tested, if someone knows at which facility it was tested I can get the results and post them for you, but until someone can tell me, and MD won't I can not get the information to you.
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Blue Skies
You are completely mistaken about your idea that if something does not have metal it can't be picked up by a magnometer. As stated in other parts of this forum, it depends on the type of magnometer and what the device is looking for. To my knowledge there are only 5 test facilites which can test items to be Lo-Mu which is what MD claims. As far as I know to this date, one has never been tested, if someone knows at which facility it was tested I can get the results and post them for you, but until someone can tell me, and MD won't I can not get the information to you.
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Blue Skies
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Let's just say that I know someone "very well" who has walked through the metal detectors of many major airports with both a Mirage-X Micro and an Operator, once even brushing it against the detector wall, without detection.
It takes nuts of steel to try it yourself, but they indeed work as advertised.
I wouldn't shove it in your carry-on and put it in the X-ray machine, but when worn as designed, they do what they are supposed to do.
--Doug
It takes nuts of steel to try it yourself, but they indeed work as advertised.
I wouldn't shove it in your carry-on and put it in the X-ray machine, but when worn as designed, they do what they are supposed to do.
--Doug
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 140
Being the paranoid person that I am, I have my own wand type metal detector. The
Mirage X is undetectable. The Operator sheath is also undetectable but the rivets in the
Mirage Hunter will set off the detector. The Hunters rivets are non magnetic.
(According to the head investigator for the local county DA, paranoia is a state of
awareness. He shared this with me during a conversation that was started by the Pygmy
ATAK on my belt, while waiting at a car wash)
Mirage X is undetectable. The Operator sheath is also undetectable but the rivets in the
Mirage Hunter will set off the detector. The Hunters rivets are non magnetic.
(According to the head investigator for the local county DA, paranoia is a state of
awareness. He shared this with me during a conversation that was started by the Pygmy
ATAK on my belt, while waiting at a car wash)