Military model with CPM440V

[ripoil]

I was just wondering, how good is the older Military model with the CPM440V steel? It has "Military" marked on the blade. How does this knife compare with the models that replaced it?

 

[STR]

Only real difference is probably in the increased corrosion resistance the S30V models have over the 440V/S60V knives. Edge retention is slightly better in the S30V models also because the edge doesn't tend to roll as easily. But it is so close as to be hardly worth mentioning. The 440V knives I have owned, one of which was a Millie, have performed quite well and sharpened up very nicely even though I got them used.

STR

 

[wwells20]

Only real difference is probably in the increased corrosion resistance the S30V models have over the 440V/S60V knives. Edge retention is slightly better in the S30V models also because the edge doesn't tend to roll as easily. But it is so close as to be hardly worth mentioning. The 440V knives I have owned, one of which was a Millie, have performed quite well and sharpened up very nicely even though I got them used.

STR

I agree, I got some surface rust on my 440v Mili. Not bad but it rusted. I have never had any other stainless rust and even D-2 hasn't. The 440v sharpened up nicely but I've never used the knife hard enough to really know edge retension.

 

[nozh2002]

I agree, I got some surface rust on my 440v Mili. Not bad but it rusted. I have never had any other stainless rust and even D-2 hasn't. The 440v sharpened up nicely but I've never used the knife hard enough to really know edge retension.

By Crucible CPM 440V (CPM S60V) is 8 times more wear resistant over CPM S30V. S30V is bit tougher, but I did not see any reports about broken blade for old Military.

It will be interesting to see side by side edge retention tests for both models.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[SteelDriver]

Vassili, where did you find that S60V is 8X more wear resistant than S30V? Keep in mind that S60V is usually a few points HRC softer than S30V.

We found that S30 V was better than S60V in abrasion resistance by about 30% (at optimum knife blade Rc). S30V also was about 13% better than D2 in abrasion resistance. S90V was superior to S30V by another 15%-25% depending on edge angle. (We make out own mules, heat treat to factory spec, use our own CATRA (calibrated anually), our own dedicated technician, consistant edge angles (lazer goniometer) and optimum hardness).

We found that S30V was only slightly better that S60V in corrosion resistance. Nowhere close to 440C. (Govt approved Q-Fog tsting).

 

[nozh2002]

Vassili, where did you find that S60V is 8X more wear resistant than S30V? Keep in mind that S60V is usually a few points HRC softer than S30V.

I found it on Crucible site Data Sheets about yesr ago or so (they remove 440V now as it is not in production any more, I think) it was not mentioned directly but using 440C for comparison it was clear that wear resistance for 440V was 8 or bit more times higher and toughness was bit smaller (still higher then 440C as I remember). 440V is just little bit less wear resistent then CPM S90V and less tough. As I understand CPM S90V was initially intented to substitute CPM 440V and CPM S30V is "compromise" steel - kind of entry level steel for powdered high vanadium, like 420 or something.

However WR is not same as edge holding.

I think MIlitary gives as opportunity to test this steels side by side on the "real" and the "new" models and make conclusion.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[JD Spydo]

440V is not bad blade steel at all. The 6 Spydercos I own that have that metal I will probably keep with the exception of the Lil T which I would like to replace it with S30V. But the one gripe I have with 440V is that is some of the hardest steel to sharpen I have ever encountered. Even some steels I have sharpened with higher Rockwell C ratings aren't even as hard to sharpen as 440V.

If you have kids you want to punish make them sharpen your 440V blades. They will behave after that

 

[nozh2002]

440V is not bad blade steel at all. The 6 Spydercos I own that have that metal I will probably keep with the exception of the Lil T which I would like to replace it with S30V. But the one gripe I have with 440V is that is some of the hardest steel to sharpen I have ever encountered. Even some steels I have sharpened with higher Rockwell C ratings aren't even as hard to sharpen as 440V.

If you have kids you want to punish make them sharpen your 440V blades. They will behave after that

I have problrms only with CPM S90V because at some point, when abrasive grit comparable with the size of VanadiumCarbides particles, it does not make any sence - Vanadium Carbides harder then Aluminium Oxides. This happend for CPM S90V from Medium to Fine Sharpmaker rods. I noticed no difference betwin Medium and Fine for CPM S90V. I had to change my sharpening technic and start using diamond powder on leather. Before Sharpmaker works just perfect on everyting exept some Japanese blades.

May be this is a reason why CPM S90V is not in production - it is hard to belive but for CPM S90V you need something better then Sharpmaker, which is the best on the market for now.

But with "Amerikan Handmade" leather and jeweler diamond powders it is as simple as with Sharpmaker (and almost same price I think).

And I never have blur since then...
And it works even for Japanese Shirogami - Aogami...

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. This is my Sharpening System:

 

[Shmackey]

My 440V Millie was terrific, and my 440V Rhino Temp is the only knife I've been able to sharpen freehand as well as I can usually sharpen with guides.

 

[Razzierb]

440V is not bad blade steel at all. The 6 Spydercos I own that have that metal I will probably keep with the exception of the Lil T which I would like to replace it with S30V. But the one gripe I have with 440V is that is some of the hardest steel to sharpen I have ever encountered. Even some steels I have sharpened with higher Rockwell C ratings aren't even as hard to sharpen as 440V.

I agree JD, but why is that? I've struggled with ATS-34 in the past as well. WHY ...?? What is it that makes one steel harder to sharpen than another.