"Minuteman" - USA vs. China

K

King_Martini

Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
3
I am both somewhat new to Schrade knives and this forum. I have always loved pocket knives, yet I had never bought an Old Timer. I have probably owned at least a hundred pocket knives in my 31 years of age.

My first "Old Timer" had been a Taylor/China Old Timer. I must say my first impression was not a bad one. After further research, I wanted to find out how the USA original compared to the imported Taylor, so I bought one on eBay.

Here are my basic unbiased findings:

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USA - Schrade
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• EBAY - $24
• Quality construction
• Easy opening/closing, nice smooth snap
• Slightly longer (2-3 mm) than the Taylor remake
• Scales slightly thinner/duller than import. Natural look.
• Carbon Steel - Sharper, prone to rust/stain, requires care and love.
• Sharp points on blades.
• No gaps along the spine of the knife.
• The small blade - same size grove for thumbnail as the large blade
• Scale cut pattern is //////////////// (opposite of Taylor)

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China - Taylor
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• ONLINE WEBSITE $13
• Quality construction
• Difficult opening/closing, ALOT of snap. Tight.
• Slightly shorter (2-3 mm) than the original
• Scales slightly thicker/shinier than original. Plastic look.
• Stainless Steel - Keeps a pretty blade, but not as sharp and harder to sharpen
• Rounded points. I am not impressed.
• Very minor gaps along the spine of the knife.
• The small blade - small grove for thumbnail, annoying to open.
• scale cut pattern is \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (opposite of Schrade USA)

OVERALL SUMMARY:
The Taylor isn't as bad as most make it out to be. It is a solid pocket knife and with care, would serve its owner well.

**I do suspect that in a month or two, the Taylor might have a little wiggle in the blades.**

If you had a choice, the original USA is probably about 15% better in construction quality and character (carbon vs. stainless blade preferences put aside). It feels like your grandfathers knife. You know, the one that has been sharpened SOOO many times you could get poked by the blade point even though the knife was closed.

I must admit I was very happy with the Taylor until I compared it to the Schrade USA original. Yet the Taylor isn't a poor quality knife either.

The USA Schrades are like old Heddon fishing lures. People collect them because they have fond memories of them. Production cost wasn't an issue. They got the job done well without any fancy bells and whistles. Sadly, you rarely see this quality in any American made products anymore. We too believe in cheaper production and higher profit. Please remember that you are no longer supporting a USA company nor its former workers when you buy a USA made Schrade. That profit now goes to "Vintage" dealers. I think we would all buy an authentic Schrade original from China if it was a few dollars cheaper on eBay. It is silly to condemn a foreign company for continuing a proven and respected line of knife design. The foreign counterpart at least opens the door of classic Schrade design to future generations.
 
Not for me pal I condemn them. Thoes china knock offs arent schrades at all. All Taylor did was use the name and made junk. If I wanted a piece of crap knife I would buy one, but I dont. People who dont know any better may buy them I dont care if my money is going to a knife dealer or whoever, as long as it isint going to taylor. There is a big difference in the knives in my opnion and the china ones will never be collectible thats why you can buy them from smkw for under $10 for most models. And as far as continuing a proven and respected like of knives, that ended in 2004 pal
 
Save your "Buddy/Chief/Pal/Bub" replies. It takes away from the point you try to prove.

"Collectible" stuck out most to me in your reply. I never stated anything remotely close to "Taylor" being collectible. Yes, USA Schrade represents a timeless quality knife. I agree with you that USA Schrade is very collectible. Just like "Heddon" fishing lures. Both are as admirable as a hand wound timepiece.

However, the China made Taylor "Minuteman" IS NOT CRAP. I have both, so I know from first hand experience. I cannot speak for other China Taylor OR USA Schrade models. Just the "Minuteman" model. I hate to disappoint you but I have bought American "Crap" knives as well.

Quite frankly, I think the USA Schrade will prevail over the Taylor. Stainless Steel holds an inferior edge. Stainless blades chip. Stainless is rigid. Carbon steel blades bend and can be straightened out with a steel. Material... not Brand. Oddly, Schrade USA dabbled with "Schrade+" in the end because more consumers wanted a stainless steel blade than a carbon steel blade.

I agree that the Schrade USA Minuteman is a better knife. I am fond of it and it is the one I will carry until another pocket knife surpasses in quality. It reminds me of the "Camillus" my grandfather carried most of his life. The reason I bought both knives is that there is a very biased and opinionated stance on the two companies. I wanted to know the truth first hand.

My conclusion has now been made very clear.

Taylor should not be using the "Schrade" name or even the "Old Timer" line. This is what angers the community at large. They should brand its product as "Taylor" instead of using the name "Schrade."

The Taylor is not as perfect, but it is most definitely not crap.
 
Smokey Mountain Knife Works introducd me to Spyderco in 1990. Guess I should order from them again to get a free catalog :)

"Opinel" is a great knife as well if you don't mind the producer being French. But hey, they still produce carbon blades and a very old and authentic design.
 
I agree Joel, they are not for me either.
Those of us who were Vietnam dodged too much chinese steel to buy it now.

Dale
 
gradall5200 said:
Not for me pal I condemn them. Thoes china knock offs arent schrades at all. All Taylor did was use the name and made junk. If I wanted a piece of crap knife I would buy one, but I dont. People who dont know any better may buy them I dont care if my money is going to a knife dealer or whoever, as long as it isint going to taylor. There is a big difference in the knives in my opnion and the china ones will never be collectible thats why you can buy them from smkw for under $10 for most models. And as far as continuing a proven and respected like of knives, that ended in 2004 pal
Click to expand...

What you said, brother!
 
King Martini,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. That's what this forum is supposed to be all about. I appreciate the dispassionate side by side comparison. I did the same thing for myself some time ago when I received a Taylor made Schrade 887OT-B from a dealer who was trying to make good on a purchase that went bad. I have a pretty large Schrade collection (all USA Schrade) and I didn't want a Chinese Schrade, but the guy was trying to do the right thing, so I thanked him and took the knife. I figured I'd give it to someone, but I was surprised at first glance that it didn't look like "cheap crap." My side by side led me to pretty much the same conclusions you came to in your comparison. I compared the Taylor/Schrade 887OT-B(CHINA) to a mint Schrade 897UH (USA).

First thing (and most important) I noticed was that the grind of the blades were better on the old U.S. version. Specifically, the turkish clip blade (the long blade) on the chinese 887OT-B was WAY thicker than the 897UH (US version) which makes it harder to slice through something without tearing or hacking it apart. The spey blade was a little thinner on the chinese knife which made it look more prone to breaking. The tip of the long blade was much sharper on the 897UH (US version).

However, the walk and talk was very nice, the back springs and the handle material was all pretty damn good on the chinese knife. It wasn't cheap crap. However, it would never be as good a tool, right out of the box, as the old 897UH. I'm not throwing the 887 away though. I can thin out (flat grind) the turkish blade down some and use it in a glove compartment or tackle box or something...

I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't buy a Chinese/Taylor Schrade, but like you said, I made the decision from first hand experience. I like the idea that we should be free to check things out and make up our own minds. I don't like being told what to think. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions and should be given a free and open FORUM in which to discuss those opinions without being talked down to by their peers. Welcome, and please keep sharing your thoughts!

Best Regards,
Kevin
 
Exactally and thats all I was doing sharing my thoughts on the china taylors!!! Your right it is an open forum and I dont like taylors thats all I was saying if someone likes them thats fine but the top of this forum says " Imperial schrade corp maker of schrade knives and tools including the famous old timer and uncle henry brands ALL MADE IN THE USA". I have even started threads offering to send free china oldtimer to people to compare them so, sorry if I may have called you pal in my reply, I wont let it happen again Martini!!!
 
By the way a frech made knife is far different than a china made one. I own several opinels and they are good knives that have been around for years and they arent pretending to to be anyone they arent or using a name that isint really theres. or trying to rip off people who think they are buying a genuine schrade knife and get a china taylor in the mail because the ebay description was poor.
 
I have to add this... I don't want to, but to be fair and honest, I have to...

I had totally forgotten about that Chinese version of the 897 pattern (887OT-B) that I got stuck with before reading King Martini's post yesterday. After I responded, I started to figure out how challenging it was going to be to grind down the blade (without the right tools) and I decided to give the manufacturor the chance to fix the knife. So I shot an email to Taylor Brands. (I know I'm not winning any freinds here with this post)

A nice woman named Shanna in Tennessee got back to me FAST! She let me know that Taylor doesn't do repairs, but offered to exchange it for "a new one of same model or if you would like I will replace it with something different."

I figured all the 887OT-B's would have that thick Turkish clip blade, so I took a quick turn through their online catalog and decided to try a 77OTW which is basically a copy of the old Improved Muskrat with "desert ironwood" scales. I offered to pay the difference in price between the two models as well as the cost of shipping and this was their response:

"There is no extra charge for the exchange of your knife. I am sorry we can’t grind your knife for you here they are not made here, so we don’t have the tools or materials here to correct any problems. When you send your knife ...."

So, that's my experience with Taylor Brands customer service dept. Fair is Fair. She did a good job.

If anyone is interested, I will be happy to share the side by side comarison of the Schrade77OT (USA) with the Taylor/Schrade 77OTW (China) when it arrives. I will be comparing the two for my own edification, but if anyone else is interested, I will be happy to share my observations.

Best Regards,
Kevin
 
Thanks for sharing Kevin.
At least they have good customer service. If your product is lacking, at least they can have a liberal exchange policy. After the knives don't cost them a lot.

I am EDCing a 787 (the Open Stock predecessor to the 77OT) lately. Great carbon steel. I would be interested in your comparison if you carried both knives for a couple weeks and then let us know how you feel about the two.

I still won't buy any, because I think we need to employ Americans by making products here in the USA. Not just employing minimum wage sales people at Walmart. It is a matter of principal.

Just my 2¢
Dale
 
Schrade Knives Collectors Forum Imperial Schrade Corp. - maker of Schrade Knives & Tools, including the famous Uncle Henry and Old Timer Brands - all made in the USA. Since Schrade closed their doors, this forum has become a site for the collectors to meet and share information

ALL MADE IN U.S.A. GET THE POINT!!!
 
O.K. I think we may be going off the reservation a little here. I'm not advocating buying Taylor's stuff?! I don't collect Taylor, I collect Schrade, Queen (Schatt & Morgan), Remington, a little Camillus... Hell, I haven't even bought one Taylor made Schrade!!! (FYI - I never came close to buying a Chinese version on eBay or had to ask "Is this a Chinese Schrade" because I had enough experience buying the real deal BEFORE Schrade went under!)

The only reason I've even seen a Taylor Schrade is due to the fact that I bought a Henckles (trying them out at the time, they didn't make the cut) that didn't have any snap and the dealer substituted the Taylor Schrade. He didn't offer a refund, so I figured he needed the sale more than I need the cash...

Please don't vent any of the anger associated with Schrade's closing and Taylor Brands purchase of the trademarks towards me. I was really upset when I went looking for a replacement LB7 in spring of 2005 and couldn't find one in any hardware stores. I kind of crushed when I heard that a company I first bought from when I was still in the Boy Scouts went out of business! I went so nuts that I think I bought 37 USA made LB7s on eBay over the next 6 months. (I sold all but 2 since then.)

If a few of us keep venting about this towards new collectors (of USA made Schrade knives) we'll only turn new collectors away from the forum and even worse, discourage guys from thinking of this as a fun hobby.

I posted because a new guy (new to collecting Schrade) shared something that I identified with - checking out the differences between Schrade and the China copies, and he got smacked down instead of being welcomed.

When I showed up a few years ago, the Schrade Forum members welcomed me. They were patient and generous with information and a kind word of encouragement. I got the feeling that there was useful information for me here. That kind of spurred me on to find out more about Schrade and learn more. I shared a common affinity for something, a hobby of collecting and learning about something that connected me to my past. If I'm going to come to this forum, I think it is my responsibility to extend the same welcome to the next guy.

I saw comparisons of the LB7 w/ the Chinese copy when they first came out in 2006, and nobody seemed to get upset. What's up?

I will gladly not post the muskrat comparison if it upsets even one forum member, I'm not here to draw fire. This is my recreation, my leisure time. I'm not into politics or debating economic policy. I just like to collect and use pocket knives.
 
You know, I really don't care much one way or another. I do, however, respect Orvet's, Gradall's and W5's position. What I do take offense to is being told it is silly to condemn a foreign company for continuing an American tradition. Taylor isn't trying to continue an American tradition. He's trying to make money off of it....plain and simple. I would have more respect for him if he wanted to use the name and do it on a line of knives that didn't resemble the Old Timers and Uncle Henry's of old. Putting the name Schrade on a cheap knockoff doesn't make it a Schrade any more than walking into McDonald's makes me a Big Mac. There are some things that should have just been put to rest and this is one of them in my humble opinion.

That being said, I don't mind if Kevin wants to draw comparisons but to me, it's like comparing an original Picasso to a 5th grader's version. I'll tell the fifth grader it looks good but ain't no way in Hades I'm gonna buy it.
Perhaps where the umbrage was taken was in that a FNG came on the board and tried to tell the old timers about it and tried to convince them it ain't that bad. Just my two cents here and it may not even be worth that much.
 
ducks_and_bucks66 said:
You know, I really don't care much one way or another. I do, however, respect Orvet's, Gradall's and W5's position. What I do take offense to is being told it is silly to condemn a foreign company for continuing an American tradition. Taylor isn't trying to continue an American tradition. He's trying to make money off of it....plain and simple. I would have more respect for him if he wanted to use the name and do it on a line of knives that didn't resemble the Old Timers and Uncle Henry's of old. Putting the name Schrade on a cheap knockoff doesn't make it a Schrade any more than walking into McDonald's makes me a Big Mac. There are some things that should have just been put to rest and this is one of them in my humble opinion.

That being said, I don't mind if Kevin wants to draw comparisons but to me, it's like comparing an original Picasso to a 5th grader's version. I'll tell the fifth grader it looks good but ain't no way in Hades I'm gonna buy it.
Perhaps where the umbrage was taken was in that a FNG came on the board and tried to tell the old timers about it and tried to convince them it ain't that bad. Just my two cents here and it may not even be worth that much.
Click to expand...

What galls me more than Taylor Schrades, are the hords of scavengers trying to make more money by misrepresenting them to suckers. At least the true China Taylors don't have the same tang stamps as the genuine Schrades.

But your post is at square one for me. I don't get that riled up abut it really, more just roll my eyes and shake my head over the whole deal.
 
Kevin regardless of where I stand On this subject your right. Me getting all worked up here isint helping anyone be a schrade collector. Although I do agree with D&B I agree with you guys too. But Im gonna drop it now and start talking USA schrades again
 
well i just purposely bought a Taylor Schrade 881Y. i consider it furthering my education and ability to discriminate (meaning discern the differences). this is a copy of the originals (there are minor variations in the Schrade Walden and Schrade years); a very close copy, sometimes very difficult to discern if ebay ad does not show a box, and pics may not show a readable tang. so now i soon will be able to hold and examine the Taylor with my Schrade-Walden 881Y as direct comparison. i expect this will help me make accurate Schrade purchases to add to a beginning 881 collection.
i expect the mimicry and out-sourcing in knife manufacturing will increase. there is an interesting post by A.G. Russell in which it states that Hen & Rooster manufacture is now by Kissing Crane for Frost Cutlery, and most likely out-sourced to China. so if you want originals, you have to educate yourself in every way possible. roland
 
rprocter said:
so if you want originals, you have to educate yourself in every way possible. roland
Click to expand...

Speaking of education:
I was at Ace Hardware today to pick up a couple gallons of paint they had on sale for a Honey-Do project.
While I wandered around waiting for the paint to be mixed I came to the fixed blade hawkbill knives for cutting vinyl, etc.
Ace offered three knives, all with their house "Ace" brand. The top of the line was made in the USA and had a nice bevel on the edge and was definitely a good quality cutting tool. It sold for $7.99. The second one was made in Taiwan and sold for $5.99. It was an adequate tool, but you could tell from looking at it that it was not as good as the more expensive USA made version. The third model was a smaller size with a very poor rough grind for $3.99..........made in China.

To me the comparison was quite telling.

Parenthetically, I was looking at some of their other products there comparing prices on USA made & import items. I was quite surprised to find that many of the name brand items were made in china & many of their "Ace" brands were made in the USA. The items made in the USA under the "Ace" brand were in most cases less expensive than the chinese "brand names." I noticed this especially in the tools & drill bits.

Dale
 
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