Modified D-2, Initial impressions

R

Rob Simonich

Big Bear
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
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Working on the Pikuni project Bob sent me six Modified D-2 blades to do some work on. Part of it was some grinding and heat treatment. I am impressed with this steel so far. Very consistent in quality, very clean, and has a very snappy heat treat. After initial hardening, blades were at 65 rc consistently without cryo. After a double temper, all blades were within 1/2 point of 59rc. That is consistency, and yes, I have a top of the line Wilson Rockwell tester with all the appropiate test blocks. Guys and gals, this looks to be some great steel! Ill be doing some cutting tests, corrosion resistance tests, and destructive testing and will post results as I get them.

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www.simonichknives.com
 
HELL yes.

Rob, to put it bluntly, I trust your skills in this area over Paul Bos. I hope REKAT works very closely with you during the steel's R&D phase.

Jim
 
Yes Jim, Bob has the full profile for the heat treat I used. I plan on trying a cryo on a test blade as well. We will settle on the heat treat when testing is complete. Thanks for your trust!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
I guess it's fair to let everyone know why I trust Rob.

See, with ATS34, there's two heat-treat cycles. The older type everybody's been using takes the blade up to around 950ishF on the second and third heat cycles. Hitachi Heavy Industries actually recommends something closer to 375ishF on the second and third "strokes". Ernie Mayer was an early proponent of the "low temp" cycle, followed closely by Rob and others. Paul Bos was sticking doggedly to the high-temp cycle he's been using ever since he did ATS34 jet aircraft turbine blades that way 30 years ago. Somehow, Ernie and Paul seem to have "squabbled" and Paul was adamant about not even trying the low-temp heat cycle.

(Sidenote: I think it may have been a misunderstanding. A different "Arizona knifemaker" (Ernie is in AZ) repeatedly called Paul an "alchemist", once in my personal presence - Mad Dog! All Paul seemed certain of when I talked to him was that he was taking some sort of flak from AZ.)

Now, there's a lot of controversy surrouding this...REKAT tried the low-temp cycle at one point and "didn't like it". But I don't know what caliber of metallurgist they were working with for those experiments, or exactly which low-temp variant with or without cryo they used. In any case, I respect REKAT's willingness to at least consider other possibilities, and I don't respect Paul's unwillingness to do so.

Rob made the ATS34 low-temp sequence work and by all reports, work damned well.

While the issues with D2-M are going to be totally different, Rob's combination of skill and willingness to try new ideas is why my first reaction was "HELL yes".

Jim
 
Jack, it's quite possible the test blades (and there'll be more than one) are crudely ground, never meant to be finished because many if not all will be tested to destruction. That's normal at the R&D phase Rob is dealing with.

Jim
 
Rob,

Hmmmm, should I have passed on the D-2 and Carbon Fiber first production REKAT Pikuni to get D-2 M, or will the regular D-2 be pretty much equal in terms of performance?

Thanks!
 
Steve, thats what the first run is, the D-2 modified, it is very close to D-2, but all the elements are on the high side of the specs with a couple going over specs. Bob can enlighten if he likes.

I did some testing the last few days with a Mod D-2 Pikuni blade. So far I have dug a hole in a fir 2X4 by stabbing the tip in and snapping it out, no damage at all. I cut corrogated cardboard that furniture is packed in and went through between 55 and 60 feet before it lost its ability to dry shave. I hammered the blade through 16d nails and had some edge upset but no chipping, 2 minutes with a diamond hone and the blade was back. I have clamped the knife 1" from the tip and flexed 20 deg with no bending or breaking. I will snap it as soon as I can get someone to hold the protractor for me. Then I will do the same to the 2nd blade which is the same except for sub zero quenched.

All this falls in line pretty much with regular D-2, except this seems to be tougher stuff. I dont know about corrosion resistance yet, but it about has to be a bit better than AISI D-2. I have taken a few pics of the testing and will post them if there is enough interest. Thats all for now!

And thanks Jim!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Rob,

Please post the pictures of you testing the knives. i would really love to see what the new blade steel can take.
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Rob, I can testify to the rust and stain resistance of the modified steel. The Carnivore I hauled down on one of our jungle trips did better than several other grades of stainless steels. This stuff is nothing like the D2 I was use to working with in the tooling industry. At 60 Rc, roll dies would rust quick on a humid day, especially if the polish wasn't there. So far I'm real impressed with what I see on this steel.

Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com
 
Thanks Rob!

I am a little confused now though, maybe you or Bob T. can help me out. I got the impression from the 1SKS listing for the REKAT Pikuni that the pre-production knives with carbon fiber handles would be regular D-2, and the regular production would be D-2M with G-10 handle scales. Can you verify that?

Thanks!
 
Jeff, glad to hear about the corrosion resistance of the D-2 mod, the chrome in it is a bit higher than ASAI D-2. As dry as it was this summer up here a mild steel knife wouldnt have rusted at all! A couple weeks in the jungle will tell a lot. How did you find the edge holding?

Steve, all Pikunis will be the D-2 Mod. I think where the confusion comes from is the way some use just D-2 instead of D-2 mod when talking about it. Rest assured, the one you are getting will be D-2 mod!

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www.simonichknives.com

[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 09-13-2000).]
 
Everytime I see this thread, I think of a post, or an article in one of the knife magazines where the is a discussion of superior knife materials. Talonite was mentioned and Bob Dozier talked about D2 and said he was sticking with it (D2). Considering the results he gets, I can understand that, especially considering the price of Talonite.

On the other hand I have my Kanji by Rob Simonich in my pocket right now. It came very sharp, especially if one is slicing. It is made of Talonite.
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Does anyone know the thread or article I am thinking of?
 
Can't say that I do. The blade material really doesn't mean that much to me any more. I have a preference for CPM420V and differentially heat treated tool steels, but I have great blades made out of a whole variety of steels. Almost any premium steel, heat treated well, can make great blade, as long as it is designed and ground right. All the good steels are so close together in performance potential that you would have to be a hard-core professional knife user, like a meat processor, where you wore a knife out every couple of months before you could really appreciate the difference. D-2M is fine with me. Talonite is good stuff. CPM420V is awesome, selectively tempered O-1 is great too. It's all good.
 
Rob I would be very interested to hear what difference if any you find between the blade that has the cryo treatment and the one that doesn't?
 
I'll take some heat for this post, bring it on.

Sick of the gimmicks, smoke and mirrors, and the "metal of the month" clubs??

So am I.

Talonite: just like stellite but a little different to make it better.

D-2M: just like D-2 but a little different to make it better.

So, what exactly is D-2M. Who makes it. Who sells it? Perhaps it will be sold only thru a certain knifemaker?

Mr. Jim March, you owe Paul Bos a BIG public apology. Paul has been heat treating knives for the public for 20+ years. He is heralded time after time as the best in the business. He heat treats according to the steel manufacturers recommendations and specifications.

It is not his job to experiment or switch methods from what's recommended.

I've talked to forging types who believe the best heat treatment can only be obtained when there is a full moon. Others will only finish a blade after it has been buried in the snow for 6 weeks or so. So much for knifemakers experiments. I'm sure we have heard it all.

For you anal retentive types out there, I've used a knife in combat. I don't what steel it was made from, I don't know who heat treated it, I don't know how it was heat treated. It was not "SCARY SHARP"

It performed admirably.

Selwyn
 
SELWYN, Its Ok with me if you are happy with the same ol stuff! Myself, I am happy looking for a better material to make a better knife, the search will never end with me, and there will always be folks like you who are plenty happy with whatever knife they have at the time. That is fine! Your smoke and mirrors are my improvements to my knives. Most folks actually appreciate it. And, thanks for your comments!
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db, I will be breaking the blades as soon as I can get my wife to help me out by holding the protractor, so far the cyro blade hasnt shown any improvement in edgeholding....

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Thanks Rob looking forward to seeing the rest of your results.
Selwyn as I may not notice or even see a performance difference I sure want to use a maker that does.
 
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