Need help with temper line.

R.W.Clark

R.W.Clark

Joined
Apr 30, 2001
Messages
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I have been working on zone hardening blades. I am using O1 and have been getting some great performance (see testing at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181777), but the visibility is severly lacking. When the blade is polished it barely shows. I am having to etch the blade to get it to show up, and even then is not as pronounced as I would like. Are there some tricks, or am I just asking too much out of O1?
 
I wish my lines looked that nice. Etching and polishing is the only way I know. The softer steel will remain slightly satin and the hard edge gets shiney. Im no help
 
It looks good to me in that shot :)

I've been playing around with it too, and so far I've got what works for me. It's basically what Terry Primos posted on the CKD, which I highly recommend you go over and look at!

I've been sanding the blades to at least 600 by hand, but up to 2500 on some. I etch in a mix of 4 parts ferric chloride to 1 part water after cleaning the blade with liquid ivory and then Windex (with ammonia). I leave the blade in for about 30 seconds and take it out to make sure it was clean and there are no shiny spots.

I then put it back in...you have to play with the length of time to get however deep you want on the etch.

Then I clean it off with soap, then give it a bath in baking soda. Then I sit down and rub on the blade for about 20 minutes with Flitz metal polish. It seems like after a few minutes you aren't getting anywhere, but I keep doing it...and comparing a blade rubbed for a few minutes and one rubbed for 20, you definitely can see the difference.

I rub the Flitz on with my thumb or finger, bare. After that's done, I rub it with a flannel rag for a couple minutes. It really brings it out this way.

I thank Terry Primos for letting me in on how to do this. :D

Nick
 
Nick,
I appreciate the mention. I believe out of all the folks who have emailed me with questions, you may be the only one who ever came back and gave me some credit in a thread. Makes a fellow feel good. :)

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R.W.,
Actually your temper line looks pretty darn good to me. That's the way they look when polished out. The method I've been using which Nick mentioned is for a bold temper line -- one that jumps out and slaps you in the face. But that's not always what you want. I'll show you some pics, and if it looks like the type of contrast you're looking for, give it a try.

First let me mention that I primarily work with the plain carbon steels in the 10xx series. They seem to lend themselves very well to bold temper lines. I haven't gotten quite as bold temper lines with O1 or 5160. All I can figure is maybe it has something to do with that little dab of chromium they both have, but don't quote me on that, that's just a wild guess. It could be that I just haven't spent enough time experimenting with them.

Anyway, after washing with hot soapy water and rinsing, I wipe some of the excess black crap from the etching process off with a paper towel. When I told Nick about my process, I was following that with a paste of baking soda and water. Here lately I've skipped the baking soda and gone straight to the Flitz.

flitz_rub.jpg


You can see where I've been rubbing in a circular motion with the Flitz. This is the part where Nick mentioned that it looks like you aren't getting anywhere. I rub a while then wipe the blade down with a cotton cloth and take a look. If it's still too dark, I'll give it another go with the Flitz until I get what I'm looking for.

Here's a shot of a finished blade done this way.

knife3.jpg


Here's another one.

myknife.jpg


Now I doubt that it's anything magic in the Flitz. I just happen to keep a supply of Flitz which is ever-so-slightly abrasive, so that's one of the things I tried. It satisfied me and I stuck with it. I also in the past tried just the baking soda paste. One time I even tried Topol smokers tooth polish. I was reading the label on it an saw that one of the ingredients was aluminum oxide. I thought, "Heck, I can brush my teeth and sand some furniture at the same time". :D
 
That is exactly what I want! Thanks.

I think it is the O1. I used to get that type of line with Engnaths yakiba katanas. They were 1095 if I remember correctly. I also remember Bob or someone else saying at some time that other steels would not show the temper line as well.

I am working up to a traditional clay packed yakiba edge, so the hamon really needs to stand out. BTW: I used to do the same thing as you but used finely powdered pumice instead of Flitz. I used a wet leather pad and rubbed the pumice on the blade. Gets rid of the black and brings up a polish real fast. I alway have a quart or so of Flitz around the shop so will try your way and see how it works out.

Well, I have pretty much decided to sell the three O1 blades and pick up so other steel. Know any good sorces for 1060 or 1095?
 
Well, I've been getting my steel from Admiral, but I don't think they carry 1060. They do have 1084, 1095 CRA and 1095 HR. I actually prefer 1084.
 
Terry, I am very glad to point my finger at you on this!!! :D I was just sort of scratching my head until you emailed me back and then posted it up on the CKD. Thank you, thank you!!! Those knives are beautiful and very BOLD!

Actually you can get the simple 10XX series stuff from Admiral, I just got a few pieces of 1050 after I had been seeing so much of it being used in Japanese style work. Most influential of that being the sword forging info on Don Fogg's site... I really admire that guy.

The only thing with those steels is they shear it off of sheet. I'm not sure if that causes any problems. It forges very nicely and I think with proper thermal treatments will be great for things like large tantos or swords (no, I haven't done any yet ;) ).

Interesting method Ron, that sounds very traditional. I would like to try something like that too. This is the sort of stuff that is just cool to play around with!

Thanks!
Nick
 
It looks pretty darn good to me too. I can't tell you anything more than the others. My most successful one was not near as good as what you have. It was in 5160 but everything I've read indicated better results with the 10 series steels.:)
 
Originally posted by R.W.Clark
...Engnaths yakiba katanas. They were 1095 if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, most Engnath Jpz style blades were actually 1050. That steel makes for a very visible hamon by the way.

JD
 
Just checked and Bob used 1045/1050 for his yakiba blades. Hey, I can't remember everything;).
 
OOPS!!!

I just noticed I made a HUGE mistake in my description!

I etcht the blade in 4 parts water to 1 part ferric chloride, not the other way around. That much acid would probably eat your blade. I have used 3 parts water to 2 parts acid, but the slower etch usually looks nicer.

Nick
 
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