Newbie at Sharpening...please help!

Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
256
For the last 3 or 4 years...I have absolutely loved collecting knives. I will ashamedly admit, that a really great knife store was within driving distance of my work during lunch, they did a great job of knife sharpening for 3 bucks a knife and for free if the knife came from there. Now, my favorite store moved to the other side of town...and I love my knives to be sharp.

So....at the risk of being a total newbie...I am appealing to the wise folks here. I need to know a good sharpener or system that is ...easy to use...and fairly affordable. Most of my collection is AUS 8 or lower steel...just a couple of SV30 steels. Any suggestions would be really appreciated...it is time I start to learn to do this and enjoy it myself.
 
You will get lots of advice, and much of it will differ.
Here's some:
If you want to just touch up--a strop, and a Sharpmaker; if you want to re-bevel then a guided system like the DMT, it takes a lot of skill out of the equation--go for diamonds or the S30V will drive you nuts.
The ultimate is a paper wheel or two for the bench grinder or even on a electric drill held in a vice.
Learning to sharpen free hand can be rewarding and/or frustrating if you are not good with your hands and tools.
If you're like the rest of us, you will probably end up with two or three options!
Greg
 
Any opinions on the Byrd Duckfoot sharpener? It seems to be able to do alot of different things, comes with an instructional DVD, and is in my price range....anyone use one? Pros? cons?
 
Learning to freehand is always good, but there is no shame in starting with training wheels. I am still of the opinion that the Sharpmaker is the best starting setup that you can have. Yes, you might end up with a selection of your favorite stones but that is really besides the point. The Sharpmaker can teach you two very important things: a) what sharp really means. I have the feeling that a lot of people that start freehanding with no one to help them tend to think that factory edges have been applied with some magic tools that are out of reach for the average Joe Shmoe. The Sharpmaker will teach you that factory edges are in fact usually inferior and that you can do a whole lot better yourself, because, in the end it is quite difficult to beat the Sharpmaker in the end result. Yes it is possible, but when people like Jeff Clark still use a Sharpmaker, it should tell you that there is really no use in letting your pride get in the way of using an excellent system. The Sharpmaker will also teach you that when the edge is set up right, it will take only 10-20 passes per side and no more than 5 minutes to get and keep an edge sharp. If you need more time on a benchstone, you are doing something wrong (that was a very important lesson for me to learn).

The Sharpmaker will not do everything though. It has two very sensible angle setting, but if you want to play around with the geometry of the edge, it is not ideal. Also, the Sharpmaker is not the right tool to hog metal off a blade. The prerequisite to using the angles of the Sharpmaker, is that you start with an edge geometry that is at least as acute, and preferably MORE acute than the settings of the Sharpmaker. If you want to use the 15 deg setting of the Sharpmaker, you should start out preferably with an edge that is 12 deg per side or less. For the 20 deg setting you preferably have and edge geometry of 15 deg or less. Unfortunately, many knifes do not have such an acute geometry coming from the factory. In fact many factory edges are 20++ deg per side. To rebevel them, you need something that will hog metal off fairly quickly. This is were the diamond stones really shine. Ideally, you have an x-coarse DMT benchstone. Unlike the DMT Diasharp stones, the benchstones have a plastic base and are fairly light. You can lean them against the Sharpmaker rods at 15 deg and can rebevel your edges quite quickly (you don't have to take alternating strokes in this step, just take 10 strokes each side, till you have pulled up a burr).

Finally, the finest grit of the Sharpmaker is not as fine as you can go. You can further polish your blades with a strop and some compound. The strop can be anything. MDF board with nothing but compound on it works for example really well. The harder the strop, the more difficult it is to work it and the better result. So a good compromise is a thin legal pad cardboard strop on wood backing or some thin leather on wood (always the smooth leather side, rough leather will work too, but acts like a softer strop). You can go completely wild on the compounds. A good starting point is wax based CrO compound, later you might want to go with some diamond compound. The nice thing about compounds is that they are not a big investment and you add a lot of flexibility to your system by making more strops with all kinds of different compounds.

This system will cost you about $40 for the Sharpmaker (shop around), and about $30 for the DMT. The strop you can get essentially for free, or you can buy one, if you see one that you like. Compounds are usually $5-10.

This system will enable you to get edges that are easily capable to compete with the edges of the best and most experienced sharpeners on the forums. Yes, once you have been bitten by the bug, you might add tools as you go along, but you don't need to. I for example don't like strops anymore. After a few years of playing around, I have found for myself that the best strops out there are the softer type japanese waterstones. They have just the right hardness, you never need to apply compound, they are extremely consistent and they cut very fast at these very fine grits. But it took me literally years to figure out that they really want to be used like strops. No more than 10 passes per side and you don't need to use them to polish. I have been going from 350# or 700# directly to a 10000# stone instead of using a strop and the results are better than I've ever gotten from a strop. BUT would I recommend buying a high quality japanese waterstone instead of a strop? Hell no! The strop will cost you about $10 the waterstone will cost you about $100 and at your current stage you might not even appreciate the difference. Because, while for me the difference my be significant, for someone who just wants a sharp edge, the difference might be rather subtle. So this is something you may or may not want to add further down the road.

The DMT, Sharpmaker+Strop is in my opinion the cheapest system that will give you 100% reliablity and versatility and as I have already hinted at: If you think that $70 total is expensive, then remember that you can spend easily twice to 10 times that for a topshelf sharpening stone and think how much money you have already invested and will continue to invest in knives, which are really no good if they are blunt. The fact that once you are experienced at sharpening you will be able to get a shaving edge on a piece of concrete, the bottom of a mug plus a piece of cardboard is really besides the point.
 
Being a newbie myself, I feel I can answer you from the newbie side of this dilemma your experiencing. I REALLY want to learn free hand and I keep trying and I hope I don't quit until I learn. Having said that, I bought a Sharpmaker and love it! It too comes with a DVD and an instructional manual. It can get tedious because you have to do so many strokes on both stones on both sides of the stone, but you will have an edge that's sharp and will be easy the maintain in the future. The sharpmaker is very versatile and can sharpen MANY different tools.

Its a wonderful sharpener, but I still want to learn freehand. I wouldn't start out that way (free hand) since I'd hate for you to ruin your fine collection with the severe learning curve that goes with it.
 
Anyone tried the Speedy Sharp? Is this any good?

http://www.speedysharp.net/

Welcome to the forums!

Sorry to say, it looks like junk. It will require freehand skills to get any good results. It is one of those things where "you get what you pay for" is definitely true. Any sharpener that has "PEELS THE STEEL" on the package is to be avoided.
 
I'v heard nothing but praise for the sharpmaker, but I believe that the quickest, most inexpensive, and versatile sharpening system available is a set of dedcent bench stones. Learning to freehand sharpen seems like a daunting task in the beginning, but, like anything else, you get out of it what you put in to it. To start freehand sharpening, you need 2 stones to begin with, one coarse, and the other fine. The coarse one doesn't even have to be a stone at all, a piece of wood with a piece of 220 grit emery cloth will do. I have a jig that I built to hold the emery cloth, it's just a 1'' x 2'' x 8'' piece of maple with a slot cuc into the edges. I put a 2'' x 10'' piece of emery cloth on it and tuck the edges into the slots and secure them with wedges. It works great, and when it gets dull, just change the emery cloth.Anyway, to begin with, start sharpening on one side of the blade at your disired angle, don't get too excited with the angle just yet, so long as it's in the ballpark of 15-20 degrees. Sharpen from heel to tip until you can feel a burr on the opposite side of the blade. It's important that the burr run the full length of the blade, but try not to grind the burr any larger than you have to, it will just have to be removed later.Once you have a burr running the full length of the blade, turn it over and do the same thing on the other side. It doesn't matter if you sharpen in a circular motion, or stroke from heel to tip. Sharpen the other side untill you have a full length burr, check frequently. Now, turn the blade over and carefully make one stroke at the same angle you have been using from heel to tip. Turn the blade over, and repeat. Do this several times, carefully using the same angle. What you are doing is removing the burr at this point. Use light strokes. Do this until you can detect no trace of a burr on either side. You should be able to shave hair at this point. Now, switch to the fine stone and increase your sharpening angle 3-4 degrees and carefully make one stroke on each side at this new increased angle. This tecneque is called "double edging", and it's extremely effective. It further insures that the burr is completely gone and in effect, it puts a little more meat behind the cutting edge, making it stronger. It won't take many strokes at this point, use your own judgement, usually 4 or 5 on each side. That's it, you should have a remarkably sharp edge at this point. Freehand sharpening is an art, and it takes practice, but it's worth it. If our fathers and grandfathers so can we. There are so many "systems" out there that freehand sharpening is almost a thing of the past. It should be learned and passed on so that it is not completely forgotten. My dad would have said "What the hell is a Lansky?" I hope this helps, If I can help further, feel free to E-mail me, my E-mail address is smitty0331@msn.com.
 
*snip*My dad would have said "What the hell is a Lansky?"

My granddad would have said the same about flush toilets, but I'm not going back to the 'long drop'. :D

Some progress is worth-while, and I like a guided system. My DMT diamond system was cheaper than a couple of good bench stones and gives a good even edge.

Greg
 
I'm not exactly arguing agianst guided systems Greg. My point is that freehand sharpening is becoming a forgotten art. Some people are not able to do it, or for whatever reason don't want to do it. Cost isn't really the issue here at all, It's as much about preserving an art as it is about getting a blade sharp. I used a Lansky myself for awhile before I abandoned it and returned to freehand sharpening.
 
Not a problem at all Smitty. I was trying to be both funny (!) and helpful at the same time.
I like freehand for chisels and planes but prefer a guided system for my knives. I do get real frustrated when near the end of a re-profile my concentration slips and so does the blade.
Mind you, I have ONCE lost enough concentration to cut myself when using a guide as well.
Greg
 
I can freehand sharpen knives all day long, but I can mess up a chisel pretty quick (only good ones though!) I also silp on occasion, my left hand can attest to that. I guess that's why my dad also had band-aids on his fingers all the time too !!
 
Funny you should mention broadheads,Whiskers. I have a coulpe that are giving me a little trouble. I'v only recently started sharpening them. These are my first ones. They are the kind with the 3 stationary blades that you just lay flat on the stone and hone. I think I messed up by trying to use a piece of emery cloth on a block of wood. Actually, it's a jig that holds the emery cloth in place so it doesn't move, but I think maybe there was a little slack in it and it rounded the edge over.
 
Funny how things have gone for me over time ... lots of different systems, but the ultimate, and not so costly, turned out to be Harbor Freight's belt sander, 3M's mylar-backed 1x30 belts, and Surgi-Sharp's leather belts for power stropping. I could have saved a lot of money if I'd gone this way originally.

You should probably check out the thread at:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496644&highlight=Harbour+Freight.
It is really worth a look.
 
What grit DMT benchstone? 220 or 325?

Learning to freehand is always good, but there is no shame in starting with training wheels. I am still of the opinion that the Sharpmaker is the best starting setup that you can have. Yes, you might end up with a selection of your favorite stones but that is really besides the point. The Sharpmaker can teach you two very important things: a) what sharp really means. I have the feeling that a lot of people that start freehanding with no one to help them tend to think that factory edges have been applied with some magic tools that are out of reach for the average Joe Shmoe. The Sharpmaker will teach you that factory edges are in fact usually inferior and that you can do a whole lot better yourself, because, in the end it is quite difficult to beat the Sharpmaker in the end result. Yes it is possible, but when people like Jeff Clark still use a Sharpmaker, it should tell you that there is really no use in letting your pride get in the way of using an excellent system. The Sharpmaker will also teach you that when the edge is set up right, it will take only 10-20 passes per side and no more than 5 minutes to get and keep an edge sharp. If you need more time on a benchstone, you are doing something wrong (that was a very important lesson for me to learn).

The Sharpmaker will not do everything though. It has two very sensible angle setting, but if you want to play around with the geometry of the edge, it is not ideal. Also, the Sharpmaker is not the right tool to hog metal off a blade. The prerequisite to using the angles of the Sharpmaker, is that you start with an edge geometry that is at least as acute, and preferably MORE acute than the settings of the Sharpmaker. If you want to use the 15 deg setting of the Sharpmaker, you should start out preferably with an edge that is 12 deg per side or less. For the 20 deg setting you preferably have and edge geometry of 15 deg or less. Unfortunately, many knifes do not have such an acute geometry coming from the factory. In fact many factory edges are 20++ deg per side. To rebevel them, you need something that will hog metal off fairly quickly. This is were the diamond stones really shine. Ideally, you have an x-coarse DMT benchstone. Unlike the DMT Diasharp stones, the benchstones have a plastic base and are fairly light. You can lean them against the Sharpmaker rods at 15 deg and can rebevel your edges quite quickly (you don't have to take alternating strokes in this step, just take 10 strokes each side, till you have pulled up a burr).

Finally, the finest grit of the Sharpmaker is not as fine as you can go. You can further polish your blades with a strop and some compound. The strop can be anything. MDF board with nothing but compound on it works for example really well. The harder the strop, the more difficult it is to work it and the better result. So a good compromise is a thin legal pad cardboard strop on wood backing or some thin leather on wood (always the smooth leather side, rough leather will work too, but acts like a softer strop). You can go completely wild on the compounds. A good starting point is wax based CrO compound, later you might want to go with some diamond compound. The nice thing about compounds is that they are not a big investment and you add a lot of flexibility to your system by making more strops with all kinds of different compounds.

This system will cost you about $40 for the Sharpmaker (shop around), and about $30 for the DMT. The strop you can get essentially for free, or you can buy one, if you see one that you like. Compounds are usually $5-10.

This system will enable you to get edges that are easily capable to compete with the edges of the best and most experienced sharpeners on the forums. Yes, once you have been bitten by the bug, you might add tools as you go along, but you don't need to. I for example don't like strops anymore. After a few years of playing around, I have found for myself that the best strops out there are the softer type japanese waterstones. They have just the right hardness, you never need to apply compound, they are extremely consistent and they cut very fast at these very fine grits. But it took me literally years to figure out that they really want to be used like strops. No more than 10 passes per side and you don't need to use them to polish. I have been going from 350# or 700# directly to a 10000# stone instead of using a strop and the results are better than I've ever gotten from a strop. BUT would I recommend buying a high quality japanese waterstone instead of a strop? Hell no! The strop will cost you about $10 the waterstone will cost you about $100 and at your current stage you might not even appreciate the difference. Because, while for me the difference my be significant, for someone who just wants a sharp edge, the difference might be rather subtle. So this is something you may or may not want to add further down the road.

The DMT, Sharpmaker+Strop is in my opinion the cheapest system that will give you 100% reliablity and versatility and as I have already hinted at: If you think that $70 total is expensive, then remember that you can spend easily twice to 10 times that for a topshelf sharpening stone and think how much money you have already invested and will continue to invest in knives, which are really no good if they are blunt. The fact that once you are experienced at sharpening you will be able to get a shaving edge on a piece of concrete, the bottom of a mug plus a piece of cardboard is really besides the point.
 
i use the cardboard wheels which i would never trade for anything else. i used to have a
lansky style sharpener until i bought my first set. stevebot, a member here sells the wheels to forum members at a discount. i have 3 short video's. i noticed some of you are from ohio. if any of you want to learn how to use these wheels i would be glad to teach you. every one of my knives are scarry sharp will shave you easily. i have links to steve at my website. link in my sig line.
 
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