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Notice to members (please read)

Oct 3, 1998

As most of you have heard in the news lately (esp. those of us in Kalifornia- Jim, James, Joe, et al.) 3 women went missing from the Yosemite area in Feb.; a mother, her daughter, and a lifelong family friend. The familys worst fears have been confirmed when one of the two bodies discovered in the trunk of their burned out rental car was positively ID'ed as the mother.
I cannot stress enough the importance of being aware of your surroundings, of other people, not picking up hitchhikers, yadda, yadda, yadda. Although none of the above may have even happened, in most cases that I have heard of, one of these is usually what led to tragedy.
Other than keeping loved ones aware of the dangers above, the only other thing I can think of to help is to teach them how to escape a locked car trunk. (Some newer vehicles have an inside the trunk latch opening device.)
Wow. Sorry, everyone, for the way heavy post this AM- just got up (before SWMBO) and was watching my wife sleep. (Admit it, fellas- you do this often.)
In sympathy to the family, this post is smiley-free. My heart goes out to them.

Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

[This message has been edited by Christian (edited 25 March 1999).]
You know this really gets to me.

I have a great wife that I’ve been married to since 1977, and we have a terrific daughter, who’s 20 years old.

These two are my whole world. But damned if I can get them to see the importance of being tactically ready. My wife owns a handgun, and enjoys shooting it at the range, but being of a tactical mindset with it, just goes beyond her understanding. As far as my daughter goes, she won’t even look at a gun, thinks their disgusting. These liberal schools sure did a job on her. No amount of reasoning on my part helps, my daughter makes me feel like I’m some sort of nut, when she finds I’m carrying a knife, God forbid she should find me carrying a gun.

My two woman never have experienced street violence of any sort (thank God) and so think because we live in a nice, quite suburban town, it will never happen to them. While I grew up in a rough neighborhood and learned to watch my six real early on. I learned that predators watch for when you seem to let down your guard, that’s when they pounce.

What the hell can I do to change these two’s attitude, especially my daughter who’s away at college, and isn’t always under my protection? She would much rather put her head in the sand.


This was a horrible tragedy. My family and I lived in the SF Bay Area for 10 years, so I'm pretty familiar with Yosemite. Too many people go through there for it to be considered an area safe from human preditors. As you say, awareness is the most critical thing. After that, being prepared to protect yourself is next. Some people are just too trusting for their own good! Also, sometimes s**t happens to the best of us! We'll probably never know what happened in this case.

It is a sad day when we hear this kind of news.

God love em LD, I find myself in very similar circumstances with two teenage daughters and a non-tactical wife.

I keep working on all three to make sure they're as tactical as I can help them be. I've only succeeded with my older girl, who starts college next fall. At least she carries a decent folder and a small SAK.

The Tactical Spouse thread (if you haven't read it, just do a search on spouse and it should show up) discusses this a lot, and offers a lot of ideas. I don't know any answer, other than constant vigilance and do what you can to help them be ready.
I never really thought I needed anything for daily carry, even though my husband and I are gun nuts till I had an incident that rattled me..
Right after I started here at Spyderco I had gone to the bank to cash a check, a large one. There was a "gentleman" behind me in line. When I had finished my business and put my money away, he left the line WITHOUT visiting a teller and followed me outside.

He walked right up next to me, like we were walking together. Well, I was thinking fast, saw the little plastic tie that held the price tag on my planner still stuck on the zipper, and fluidly slid my Delica out and open, and sliced it off. He never said a word, and I have no idea if he had foul play on his mind...but I definately think the Delica's presence was a factor. Now both my girls (13 and 17) carry a small blade when they are out, and know how and when to use it. We have even talked about being locked in a trunk, (many ways to use a knife there...)and breaking out windows in submerged vehicles with a knife. It is not only necessary to be tactical today, it is imperative.

I don't believe in harming any living thing, so when a mosquito bites me on the arm, I just pet it..real hard and real fast

double post....arg!

[This message has been edited by djo62 (edited 25 March 1999).]
I know where you're coming from re: non-tactical mindset. My wife wouldn't carry anything but a SAK for a long time, then a student got raped at school( she works at a local college) and it got to her as she walks to and from work. The school public safety office offered certification classes for Mace carry and, she went!!!
So, aftera little while with the Mace, I've got her up to a BM mini-stryker. One of these days I'll get her to carry a fixed blade, but that may take a bit longer.
I was born and raised in the Bay Area, and the feeling of violation in this case is very strong for so many here because Yosemite has always been one of Californias greatest treasures. In the last fifteen years it has become more and more of a tourist attraction, with all the unsavory elements that come along with that. When I was 11 or 12 I remember being ditched by my brother and his friends one morning and not seeing another human until well into the afternoon. The only worry back then was the wild life and poison oak. Not anymore.

It is a shame that it takes this kind of tragedy to make people aware of the danger that lurks almost everywere in our society.

One tactic that might work with regards to helping your loved ones to adapt a more "tactical" attitued might be the boxing and tai bo(?) workout classes that are becoming very popular with women. A friend at work started doing tai bo last year, and she has really taken to it. It has given her a certain poise and confidence, and has definatly given here a more aware and tactical outlook. I myself have often been grateful for the boxing lessons I had as a child, even if I did not enjoy the beatings I took at the time.

Hoping you and yours remain safe and sound-

I was actually in LA when the news of the Yosemite discovery broke. That and other stories in the LA news led to me to post this in martial arts forum when I got back to Boston.

Disquiet In LA.

Returned yesterday from work related trip in LA LA Land. A strange place. No body walks, except the poor, homeless and predators. Made
sense given the urban sprawl and after watching the nightly news which
was dominated by Oscar hype, rapes, car chases and murders. In the time I was there, one or two rapes reported per night. A serial
rapist was on the loose, attacking two women by knife point in their homes. Little details except both women escaped somehow with "minor cuts and injuries." Does sexual assault fall under "minor injury?" Two separate incidents involving 11 year old girls getting raped. One woman raped in mall parking lot in broad daylight. One woman raped in her car,
escaped, ran into a convenient store, and followed by the attacker. Video camera caught the attacker coming into the store without shirt and zipping his pants. Attacker ran back out, came back in fully dressed and
proceeded to beat the woman he had raped earlier. The store clerk can be seen standing off to the side (doing nothing). Attacker then took off.

Just the nightly news and disquieting...

The highlight of the trip was meeting up with an email friend of three years. We went to an aikido dojo neither one of us are affiliated with. She's in an unaffiliated dojo and I'm with USAF. Great workout. Last day, we met for YOGA class (I no longer underestimate the
physical/mental demands of Yoga), lunch and worked out for three hours on our own doing a mish mash of weapons, boxing, and karate based techniques, none of which she tried before. She was game.

At the end of the evening, we talked about working out, crime and self protection. She showed me her (cheap) folding knife that she carries with her always. I asked her whether she would use it if she had to. She
said yes. But, she quickly added that she didn't think a weapon is the solution for every woman. For example, she didn't think her mother or sister-in-law could ever use a weapon, be it stick, knife or gun. It's
just not in them. She opined, however, that she could. Having just worked out with her, I believe she can. She has a certain spirit in her.

Fitting that this was my last night in LA. I felt better. I am sending her a good reliable tactical knife from my collection and hoping she never has to use it.

Peace to the families to the 3 women, may their souls and families find peace. May justice be served.

Now I see all the CA have come out.
I second the notion of looking at "The Tactical Spouse" and such.

I wouldn't condemn all liberal schools, I can tell you first hand a lot of women are carrying Pepper spray and a lot of them are students.

I've already given one to my girl, till she broke it by accident. We'll shop for more later. I recently gave one to her best friend as it matches her Gerber Micro LST.

LD, you know it's really up to the person to decide what they want to do and it's great you are trying to be the push factor to help them. I believe it's not an overnight thing and I hope things work well for you.

I live in San Luis Obispo county...once it was primarily sole agriculture. Its the burgeoning wine area now days: wealthier people moving in, major tourism, etc. The crime rate has concomittantly increased. In the last 3.5 yrs 3 college co-eds have just disappeared off the face of the earth in an instant...all were "good girls", non-rowdy and good students....they were also very attractive and of similar appearance.

On both college campuses, they now have "classes" for rape and assault prevention: held at night on campus, the girls walk around campus and are "attacked" and told to cooperate with the attacker. The essential purpose of the class is to get them used to the "shock"...basically it is to get them acclimated so they don't panic when the real attack occurs. Lots of Public Service adverts about this class on TV and radio, and all sorts of official praise for it. The take home lessons for the students are: cooperate and keep talking. Lots of admonitions against physical defense. Basically I see it as teaching people to be good easy victims to be led off to slaughter.

As for me, I'll take my chances in court, after my attacker was carved into sushi. My Dad was a realist and taught me that while life is wonderful, there will ALWAYS be bad people who will try to ruin it for you.
As a sort of related question: isn't it against the law to carry a firearm - or even have one inthe trunk of your car - in a US National Park? I heard that a while back...



Yep...add to that all the weapons laws(esp in Calif) and we are legally obligated under pain of felony and/or misdemenor to be VICTIMS
"Those Liberal schools sure did a job on her"

Lucky you are completly absolutly posativly Right! Just one minor correction. I can remember at least 15 times where I was told in grade school that knives were bad. By Teachers. Same with guns. All the way through middle school teachers told students that knives cause violence. If I could go back and be there again I'd of loved to ask them if cars cause D.U.I. also. 3 days ago at my school I showed one of my friends some CS throwing knives on they're website. My teacher walked up to us and her face turned white. Then she told us that we could get suspended for this. Today a different friend brought two empty shotguns shells(Already fired, nothing in them.) to show me the difference between a .410 and 20 gauge. In the 10 seconds it took him to show me we were warned by our teach that those could get us both exspelled. For empty shells that were clearly empty. The point of this whole rant is thats its not the schools as it is the teachers.

I agree Adam, schools are just buildings its the teachers that think they can change the world with their misplaced idealism that cause the problems.

Don't like what's being taught to your kids?
Maybe you should become a teacher and go through what they do every day, and try to change the way the schools work. That's what I'm doing.

BTW, saying "it's not the schools, it's the teachers" sounds to me like saying the individual grunts were responsible for what happened in Vietnam, and every duty officer is responsible for bad laws passed by a legislature.

Do you think that teacher made the rules? So the school board, administration and PARENTS weren't responsible for the fact that someone can be suspended for the possession of a pocketknife? Maybe you should look closer. Parents and school boards get the school they make and parents are the main source of the values in the school. If the parents are terrified that some kid will walk into school some day with an AK (and you'd be shocked at how many are) then those parents produce the "zero-tolerance" schools where almost anything that can be a weapon is banned. Sure, the teacher could have ignored the shot shells, but do you really think it's fair to ask her to risk her entire career so some kid can look at empty shotgun shells? I wouldn't.
I finally got my girlfreind of 4 years to take an interest in knifes and soon hopefully guns as well. Working on that. In fact tonight at the gun / knife show she asked for her 4th knife. Of course, I got it. First it was smaller knives like the "Q" and a pearl Victornox, now it's the Gigand Spectrum and the Stallion, even the mini-Stryker. All I can hope is that the consealed carry law passes here in Missouri on April 6th. -AR

[This message has been edited by Jackyl (edited 28 March 1999).]
I agree that schools are a reflection of the community in which you live. The community I live in is comprised of mushy, head in the sand, elitist, sheeple. I won’t even bother to try to give examples, or try to change their minds. I just look forward to the day I can leave for somewhere in Free America.

It's a tough job, when you consider the extremely liberal NEA at the top. It just rolls down hill from there. Being a teacher with a little common sense is pretty tough in these times. I just ask my wife when I want to know.

Good for you Gwinny, it's tough - but it's probably the only way which stands a chance of improving things. Change from within often works when nothing else will.
Okay, you've got me started on the schools. Thomas Soell (sp) has it right when he says the task of the public school system is to separate the children from their parents values. That philosophy pervades from top to bottom. As a parent, when you realize the schools don't have time to teach the constitution, they're trotting out unusual lifestyles as being no more significant than what cereal you choose for breakfast, go to the school board, administrators, and teachers and see how your concerns are received. You'll be treated like an idiot. Radical as it may sound, public schools are working about as well as you'd expect public (meaning government) car dealers, knife makers, or grocery stores to work. Someone above noted that CA requires us to be victims. He is correct except it is our own national government as well. The firearm and knife ownership, and use, is about markets, liberty, and the right to self defense, and those items are really what is under attack. Make your votes count and stock up on essentials.
About the Constitution--if you need ammo cite Illinois. Here, you have to pass an exam that covers the entire Constitution before you can graduate 8th grade, by state law. They also teach the Illinois Constitution at most schools. We can't carry our guns, but we can quote the Amendment word for word. You'd be surprised at how well we did in my class, even the lower-level students. Of course, they didn't tell us that we could take it over, so we all had visions of being in 8th grade for 2 or 3 years . . .

Also, remember that the part about separating kids from their parents' values applies to all values. To you, it means liberal teachers trying to convince your kids to be socialist. To me, it's a question of how far I can differ from their parents (Right now I aide in a class with three fathers in prison, and at least 5 more who have to be chronically neglecting their kids--if I could prove it.) because at the early ages, they think dad's a God. What do you tell a kid who thinks prison is normal, because his parents told him his dad was in for "speeding?"
Like somebody said, it's tough. But then again, who here has a job that isn't tough?