OK, what steel then?

C L Wilkins

C L Wilkins

Joined
Mar 18, 1999
Messages
2,112
It seems like there has been quite a bit of discussion lately concerning ATS-34(yeah I know, here we go again). Actually, what would your opinions be on the better, or the best steels available today. Granted, this may be a very difficult question to answer due to the use and/or the type of the knife. If we could get a list of the top 3,4,or possibly even 5 steels that are considered to be the best available today.

CLWilkins
 
I like carbon steel much much better then stainless, And in carbon steels here is the order. This is not counting Pattern-welded.

1)52100
2)5160
3)1095
4)L6
5)W1

But if you have to have stainless, Here is my order.

1)CPM 420V
2)AUS-10
3)AUS-8
4)ATS-34
5)440c that been Cryogenic done.

I know that AUS-8 has less carbon then Ats-34 but carbon does not make the steel alone.

To many people are hung up on the carbon amount. In my carbon steels I place 5160 over 1095,L6 and W1 they all have more carbon then 5160. I really like 5160 it was amost my first choice, and I might change my mind and make so. I think it is much underated. It will hold edge with the best of them and it is alot tougher steel.



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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
Perhaps another point of view? It seems to be a process of the western mind to try to determine the "best" when given a choice. When young we might say, "Look at all the girls (or boys) which one is the best? In foods, I find that given a comparison, one is compelled to "seek the best". Often times disregarding "the rest". And thus losing out on all that "the rest" have to offer. May I suggest, "all good, all different". Taste each and experience each and have a more fulfilling experience. Just a thought to share.
sal
 
Best at what? Edge holding, tuffness, or corrosion resistants. If you want one steel that is best at all three, you are out of luck.
 
Pattern-welded Unobtainium and Mithril!
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 

Rumor has it that unobtainium is so sharp that its shadow would cut you. Now why would you want to mix it with the inferior mithril?

Lets rephrase the question. What steels do you like "best" and why? I really wasn't looking for the "best" steel, there is no such thing.

CLWilkins
 
Hahahahaha!!! David, are we about to see James Bond's arch-rival "JAWS" in action again?
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Well, personally I think all steel types are good depending on how and where they are used.

And Sal, you're right.. taste each, and experience each. That's the only way to find out which steel is good for what purpose.
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Does anybody know what steel is used for train rails? just curious..

Dan
 
I like both carbon and stainless and my order of preference for each is as follows:

Carbon Steel:

D-2(it's just under the criteria for stainless)
A-2
52100 or 50100
5160
1095


Stainless:
440V/420V(in Folders)
440C(in fixed blades)
BG-42
AUS series
ATS if done right

In large fixed blades, 440C is extremely resistant to chipping or cracking from chopping and it is my choice for a large blade over all current stainless steels. When 440V and 420V prove themselves to be impact resistant and do not chip, they may be worthy, but that has not been proven yet.
 
Sal,

I agree with you. Everyone has their own favorite and no one material is the best. I say material because there is also various ceramics as well as Talonite and Stellite. The carbon steels also have their following. I like them myself. You have to first decide what are the most important things to you. What will you be useing the knife for. Do you care about staining or rusting etc. If you do buy something you are not happy with the forums are a very good place to sell knives. I would try more than one myself. I myself am still looking for the perfect knife. Well perfect for me at least. The search has been very rewarding.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
Perfection is indeed a relative thing. You know - all your relatives think they're perfect (where do you think you fit in the scheme of things?)!
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Great point of view Sal. I like it. Enjoy all the quality knives done with different steels for the job they are designed to do. Each quality product has its strengths and weaknesses. The perfect knife changes as we change - it's not a stationary target. There are many different jobs to do and many good steel tools for the jobs at hand.

I love good steel, and life is too short to decide you've found the best of anything. The search goes on - enjoy the search. I hope all have a rewarding search!
 
I'm amazed at the amount of bodies the Western World racked up in WW 1&2 hampered so severly by O-1, W-1&2, 1095, and the like. I cannot understand how our grandfathers ever got any work accomplished whether on the farm or forest with such inferior steels.

As for me, I have placed my faith in my ability to sharpen most any blade I would have been issued by the military. I packed a CS Bushman and an Ontario KAR-BAR some years ago for a 3 1/2 month tour in Hungary, not wanting my Randall 18 to be lost in Customs, or taken away by some thieving officer for "safe keeping". One can product a Ka-Bar in camp without raising any eyebrows for tent work or hammering nails. You might attract unwanted attention with something else.

And another thing, It has taken, what, about 10 years for ATS-34 to make such a strong showing in the knife market. Well if you start campaigning really hard right now, maybe BG-42 will be the most used super steel by the year 2008!

Lastly, I don't think ATS-34 is all its cracked up to be either, but that's what most of the new blades are made of by the forward looking producers. I gotta dance with what I got. I can live with 440C and a reduction in the high cost of bladeware.

...your bit##in', your moan'n, your pitch'n a fit, Get over it, Get over it. - Brian
 
I also agree that lists of "best steels" not only do NOT get across the kind of information the inquirer really wants, but can be counterproductive. For example, we've seen 52100 (an alloy steel, not a carbon steel) in the lists of several people's carbon steels. But 52100 is "best" for what, really? greg and Cobalt realize that 52100 would not end up in the top 5 for a big bowie or chopper, but does the less-informed guy reading the list?

The best way to get really useful information about steels is probably to start by going through various usages... maybe start off with a 4" hunting knife steel question, and jump off from there. Then we all have about the same idea of what the knife will be used for, and *now* 52100 makes lots of sense!

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Joe is correct and the lists shown should not be taken for just any style of knife. Also, the wrong heat treatment can ruin a steel for a big knife, when it would have worked for a smaller knife(Rc of 62= Crack for most steels).

Most knifemakers know what they are doing and provide the steel accordingly. Randall uses O-1, Kit uses 440C in his large U-2, other makers use 5160 in big knives or A-2.
In folders were impact is not as big a factor, the CPM steels, ATS and others work well. I guess there shoul be more postings like:

Best steels for Folders.

Best steels for small to mid size fixed blades.

Best steels for large blades.

Then again, everybody will have a different choice of their favorite steel. I like them all in certain applications.
 
They are all good. Some are better at some things than others, but among the premium cutlery steels, it is more a matter of proper steel selection for the mission and heat treatement than steel type.

Generally anything that a custom maker would use is all right with me as long as the maker can discuss his selection criteria and heat treatment with me. I generally don't trust ATS-34 with mystery heat treatment. I have used excellent blades made out of ATS-34, 52100, O-1, A-2, D-2, BG-42, 440C, Boye Dendritic 440C, CPM440V, M-2, 5160, and CPM420V. I have never needed an extremely corrosion resistant knife, such as a dive knife, but if I did, I would now go for Cobalt, Boye Dendritic Cobalt, Talonite, Stellite, or beta Titanium before any of the cheap stainless steels.

A while ago, someone on the knife-list asked the question, which steel would you use if you could only use one, and most of the makers on there said L-6.

Harv
 
Joe,
I hate to disagree with you but you are wrong about 52100 steel. It makes an excellent steel for Large bowie, Also it is good for swords.

I know what you think, that the steel is not tought enough. But that is not true. I used to think that too. Intill I did some research on the steel. There are sword maker using it for swords and not just swords for looks but using swords.

The way you get it tough is with the right heat treatment.
Heck Daryl Meier says with the right teat treatment it is better then 5160 for swords. it is tougher then 5160. That is what Daryl says. And I don't take lightly what he says.
I don't think he would lie and I don't think he would say anything if he wasn't sure.

So unless you got some real good data to prove him wrong I am going to say he is right.

Which makes 52100 the best steel around.


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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
I feel that there are many great steels...Each knife I have has great steel! But all steels are not good, think its the tempering process! I've had some ats34 that sucked! and some 440v that sucked..Depends on the quality of the blade. You can have great steel and if its not tempered correctly, well you know what I mean. I just don't think there is the perfect steel..Each has its points.. I really don't dislike any of the modern steels..be it carbon or stainless...As Sal said, each has its own charm(girls)or rather persons..just as each of my knives has a certain feel to it, so each steel has its feel.. As far as edge holding, I enjoy sharpening certain blades more often than others! Touching up blades is part of the fun... rust or stains? not a problem, maintain them, its EASY...If your gonna cut cardboard or pvc but the hardest steel you can find..Or get ceramic thats tough stuff. ULTIMATE BLADE MATERIAL?...hasn't been found yet, but their workin on it!! RE:Spearpoints halo light sword
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... Buy the knife you like best.. and in a few months find another you like and but it...
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I don't have a favorite, Its a good thing were not Mormans with many knives and many wives.. Which one would be best?...Hmmmm, (No offense to poligimist Mormons)
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My point if the knife you like is from a reputable company, you probably can't go wrong..Aren't we in the golden age of American knife technology? I would say we are!..just my opinion.
bart
 
Gee, I think mithril would be too light for any chopping purposes, not to mention, rather expensive, as Bilbo's wasitcoat alone was worth the whole Shire and everything in it. So my vote goes for well forged and/or heat treated high carbon steel... Carbon V, for instance (what is Carbon V these days, anyway?) or the nice Finnish steel that Heimo Roselli forges. Boker's carbon steel traditional folders are great -- I've nearly worn my stockman's blades down to nubs over the last 20 years (OK, 30 years) of whittling.
 
They are all good. Some are better at some things than others, but among the premium cutlery steels, it is more a matter of proper steel selection for the mission and heat treatement than steel type.

Generally anything that a custom maker would use is all right with me as long as the maker can discuss his selection criteria and heat treatment with me. I generally don't trust ATS-34 with mystery heat treatment. I have used excellent blades made out of ATS-34, 52100, O-1, A-2, D-2, BG-42, 440C, Boye Dendritic 440C, CPM440V, M-2, 5160, and CPM420V. I have never needed an extremely corrosion resistant knife, such as a dive knife, but if I did, I would now go for Cobalt, Boye Dendritic Cobalt, Talonite, Stellite, or beta Titanium before any of the cheap stainless steels.

A while ago, someone on the knife-list asked the question, which steel would you use if you could only use one, and most of the makers on there said L-6.

Harv
 
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