P2 unresolved warranty problem uggggggh

T

Talley1013

Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
414
ok so I LOVE Spyderco but right now am a little ticked. I sent my lightly used cts-20cp to Golden 2 weeks ago. It had a few problems but the major one was EXCESSIVE blade play. even with the pivot and stop pin screws tightened all the way down there is blade play. If I hold the blade while it is at a 90 degree angle to the scales and push/pull the blade into/away from the scales I can feel the blade jiggle like the pivot hole in the blade is considerably larger than the pivot.

I got it back today and it is exactly the same as when I sent it in! There is absolutely no change in the blade play. The letter said that they replaced the pivot screws but that the knife "falls within our QC tolerance levels". Unbelievable. I have three other P2s and they have absolutely no blade play.

The kicker is that the letter says that "had the knife been nib, unused I would have been able to exchange it". What this says to me is, yeah the knife is f'ed up but you used it so you are stuck with it!

I sent Spyderco a pretty lengthy letter this evening so I will give them a chance to make this right before I get really steamed. I really hope that this issue gets resolved because I am of the opinion that Spyderco is the best production knife company in the world and that they are one of the few companies left that cares about making their customers happy. This might end up turning my entire world upside down! If Spyderco isn't perfect than is the sky really blue?

Thanks for listening guys, I really needed to vent.

ET
 
I've had a Manix M4 Sprint and a standard Para2. I had no issues with the para but the Manix was off center and had substantial closed blade play. I wasn't impressed when I was told that was acceptable. I sold it.

Personally, if I can't goto NGK and look a Spyderco over before purchase I won't buy it. 2 out of my last 3 have has F&F issues.

I don't want anyone to think I'm putting down Spyderco because I love their knives, just wary of the issues I've had.

OP, good luck with a resolution that makes you happy. Mr. Glesser will probably respond as soon as he sees this thread. His customer service is great :D

David
 
If the knife blade is sliding forward and back while you cut things I can see it being annoying, but I can also see how Spyderco would consider most knives with that kind of play "within tolerances". There really isn't anything you can do about it and it shouldn't affect the lock.
 
Get a gayle Bradley they are perfect!! Haha but no seriously I'd be SUPER pissed as well. That's ridiculous to me atleast.
 
And for the record Ive had 5 para 2s and my tenacious has a tighter lockup than any of them.
 
Talley,

I recently received my 1st Para2 via trade. Had a similar problem with side to side play, over tighten the pivot screws to take away the side to side, and it would actually drag after the 1st 45 degrees of opening. I had to choose between very rough opening or side to side play.

I disassembled it (yep, voided the warranty but wanted to see if it was something simple I could fix).

The hole that was drilled for the pivot had a bad, raised burr edge on one side, causing the washer itself to actually get a groove in it. The other side did not have a burred edge, but was quite a crude cut as you can see the rough cut right away and thought it might also interfere with the opening/closing action.

I hit the burred edge with a tapered dremmel stone for about 5 seconds, then repeated on the other side just for good measure.
Then sanded smooth and polished the entire pivot area on both sides.

Reassembled the knife, making sure to flip the washers so they have a new smooth surface to work with.

Whala, it was a new knife! Smooth as butter with no play. I can now even swing it open and closed while disengaging the compression lock, like those fellas do on you tube.

Not sure if this might be a fluke and just limited to my dumb luck, but it might be worth checking your pivot cut also.

BTW, I love this knife! It hasn`t left my pocket since. Amazing smoothness, ease of use, light carry and large enough for big paws, great job on the evolution of the Para.
 
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Glad you like it serratededge!!! The gayle u sent me hasn't left my pocket since either. I slept with it yesterday.....
 
Talley1013 said:
I sent Spyderco a pretty lengthy letter this evening so I will give them a chance to make this right before I get really steamed.
ET
Click to expand...

I hope your problem will be solved. I have fairly good experience with CS, sometimes it takes too long, but at the end everything done to my satisfaction.
 
I haven't had the best of luck with customer service and its a fairly common complaint with Spyderco. Most of my issues have been with Sprint runs that they couldn't do anything with because they don't have spare parts and they don't have any more of the knives. There are also quite a few complaints that a knife comes back and that the issue is 'within tolerances'. I guess that means they think the knife isn't going to fail in use and the customer just needs to get over what the perceive as a problem.

They make some great knives but they aren't all perfect and they aren't a big enough company to replace everything people have an issue with like some of the bigger production companies. It can be difficult when you have a knife and feel something is wrong and you can't even take the knife apart to try and make it better.
 
Talley1013 said:
the major one was EXCESSIVE blade play. even with the pivot and stop pin screws tightened all the way down there is blade play.
I got it back today and it is exactly the same as when I sent it in! There is absolutely no change in the blade play. The letter said that they replaced the pivot screws but that the knife "falls within our QC tolerance levels".
Click to expand...
FlaMtnBkr said:
I haven't had the best of luck with customer service and its a fairly common complaint with Spyderco. There are also quite a few complaints that a knife comes back and that the issue is 'within tolerances'.
They make some great knives but they aren't all perfect and they aren't a big enough company to replace everything people have an issue with like some of the bigger production companies. It can be difficult when you have a knife and feel something is wrong and you can't even take the knife apart to try and make it better.
Click to expand...

It looks like "QC tolerance level" (probably it would be better to say "manufacturer specification" do not meet some customers expectations. I read about this on forums and bought few Spydercos myself with cosmetic flows, knives certainly below my expectations. I send them back and fortunately for me everything so far was returned to me in acceptable for me condition.
I am not really sure where the problem is. Many of us (including me) are expecting that $100 + knife should not just perform like a tool, but also have really good fit & finish, may be this is not reasonable. One of my friend recently bought Fallkniven Tre Kronor folder, which sold close to $200 and was really disappointed with F&F as well, sent it back to the company, received apologies and replacement, but still not 100% satisfied with F&F. I personally have an experience with other Japanese company knife below my expectation.:eek::eek:
Sometimes I think that "collectors" are pain in the neck for most knife manufacturers and the only good thing about them that they spend a lot of money. Average Joe will buy $60 Delica once every five years, collector would buy 10-20 knives every year with average cost twice of Delica. Still not sure that for knife manufacturers as a business this "pain in the neck" worth additional sales, which they create.
Your thoughts?
 
I got a NIB second batch (lock issues supposedly fixed) Para 2's. Upon opening it, the lock was really sticky. So, I played with it for a week using graphite, Tuf Glude, 3 in 1, etc and no change. So, I sent it off to Golden and they replaced it! QC issues suck but there are always going to be some defects in manufactured goods... At least Spyderco made it right! But yeah, that's unacceptable! I hope it all works out!
 
Talked with Sharlynn at Spyderco today and was told that lateral blade play, very stiff detent, sticky lock and a cutting edge that is missing a sizable amount of steel compared to my other p2s is no big deal because it falls within qc tolerance. She even toldme the p2 is designed to have lateral blade play! I have three others and have fondled 5 or 6 more and have never experienced blade play like what my sprint run has. I belly ached for a few minutes and finally got an email address for someone higher up the food chain so I will plead my case with him and see where it gets me. Unfortunately at this point it seems that I have a $200 lemon and spyderco has no plan to fix my knife.

I am pretty upset right now. I buy spyderco because the knives are awesome cutting tools but also because spyderco is a small American company that cares about making quality products and making their customers happy. As much as I love spyderco and cherish my collection I am afraid that if this is not resolved it will be a deal breaker for me.

Ill keep you guys informed as this plays out.
 
Hard to know what to say. The compression lock is actually extremely safe even with vertical play, and lateral play shouldn't be a functional or safety issue at all, even if annoying. :(

Talley1013 said:
ok so I LOVE Spyderco but right now am a little ticked. I sent my lightly used cts-20cp to Golden 2 weeks ago. It had a few problems but the major one was EXCESSIVE blade play. even with the pivot and stop pin screws tightened all the way down there is blade play. If I hold the blade while it is at a 90 degree angle to the scales and push/pull the blade into/away from the scales I can feel the blade jiggle like the pivot hole in the blade is considerably larger than the pivot.

I got it back today and it is exactly the same as when I sent it in! There is absolutely no change in the blade play. The letter said that they replaced the pivot screws but that the knife "falls within our QC tolerance levels". Unbelievable. I have three other P2s and they have absolutely no blade play.

The kicker is that the letter says that "had the knife been nib, unused I would have been able to exchange it". What this says to me is, yeah the knife is f'ed up but you used it so you are stuck with it!

I sent Spyderco a pretty lengthy letter this evening so I will give them a chance to make this right before I get really steamed. I really hope that this issue gets resolved because I am of the opinion that Spyderco is the best production knife company in the world and that they are one of the few companies left that cares about making their customers happy. This might end up turning my entire world upside down! If Spyderco isn't perfect than is the sky really blue?

Thanks for listening guys, I really needed to vent.

ET
Click to expand...
 
come on ... functional or safe are not the point here.

if we bought knives just to be functional tools there would be no para2 at all.

and even considering functional only i actually have some trouble with the concept of disposable 200$ knives. every knife company/custom maker i know in europe will replace a blade for a fee when it's worn by use or broken by accident/misuse not forever but at least for a reasonable time . this aside, even if it's a sprint run there should be at least some inventory to cover this kind of defects or even accidents. it's a defect nothing else.

sorry but this is not even what i call blade play, blade play is when the knife is locked open what i understand here is imho much less acceptable :
Talley1013 said:
If I hold the blade while it is at a 90 degree angle to the scales and push/pull the blade into/away from the scales I can feel the blade jiggle
Click to expand...

i'm bummed for you and it really gives a bad image of the company, imho again.
 
Maybe it's just me but when I spend that much on a knife, I too would be highly disappointed if it had blade play.
 
Sorry to here this !! My last experience w/ spyderco CS was excellent ... Hope this gets worked out ... Btw who cares if there is blade play when the knife is only opened up half way ??? Iv said it before , if you want perfect shell out for a sebenza !!! expect small variations and enjoy the function of the knife . For what It's worth all my compression locks have had a bit of play , just the nature of the lock .
 
i think you guys misunderstood me. there IS blade play when the knife is locked. When I was talking about the blade jiggling when it was not locked i was trying to illustrate that it seemed like the pivot hole in the blade was considerably larger than the pivot. I thought this might be the root of the locked blade play. it is just something that I can identify that is different from my other p2s that may relate to the lateral blade play.

I can absolutely deal with a little blade play and understand that it isn't a custom. I dont think anyone would consider this just a little blade play. When the pivot and stop pin are both completely tightened down there is an acceptable amount of blade play but the problem is that i can barely close the knife. with the pivot adjusted to allow the knife to open and close properly the blade is just downright sloppy loose.

My other p2s are by no means "perfect" but are light years ahead of this one when it comes to F&F.
 
I wonder why they replaced the pivot screws if the knife was "within spec"? Seems to me like they saw something that wasn't right with the knife.


Talley1013 said:
ok so I LOVE Spyderco but right now am a little ticked. I sent my lightly used cts-20cp to Golden 2 weeks ago. It had a few problems but the major one was EXCESSIVE blade play. even with the pivot and stop pin screws tightened all the way down there is blade play. If I hold the blade while it is at a 90 degree angle to the scales and push/pull the blade into/away from the scales I can feel the blade jiggle like the pivot hole in the blade is considerably larger than the pivot.

I got it back today and it is exactly the same as when I sent it in! There is absolutely no change in the blade play. The letter said that they replaced the pivot screws but that the knife "falls within our QC tolerance levels". Unbelievable. I have three other P2s and they have absolutely no blade play.

The kicker is that the letter says that "had the knife been nib, unused I would have been able to exchange it". What this says to me is, yeah the knife is f'ed up but you used it so you are stuck with it!

I sent Spyderco a pretty lengthy letter this evening so I will give them a chance to make this right before I get really steamed. I really hope that this issue gets resolved because I am of the opinion that Spyderco is the best production knife company in the world and that they are one of the few companies left that cares about making their customers happy. This might end up turning my entire world upside down! If Spyderco isn't perfect than is the sky really blue?

Thanks for listening guys, I really needed to vent.

ET
Click to expand...
 
mwalle6 said:
I wonder why they replaced the pivot screws if the knife was "within spec"? Seems to me like they saw something that wasn't right with the knife.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it was to try and reduce the amount of play to make the customer happy. Just because there is play they consider acceptable doesn't mean they won't try something to help make it a little better.

I'm curious to know what will happen when they send these letters out saying there IS an issue, its just not bad enough to worry about. And then someone has a lock fail and it severe some tendons and nerves. Seems they could be setting themselves up for a slam dunk lawsuit.

Part of the problem is that they constantly make changes to improve their product. They don't know which knife it is so they have to look at it and then they might not have a part that fits that variation. They don't really keep parts on hand and that is probably why. And if it is a Sprint run or discontinued knife then they definitely don't have the parts to fix it on hand. I think some screws are about all they keep around.

To the OP: I have a fairly complete machine shop in my back yard and have taken apart quite a few of these newer pivot bushing Spydercos. If you get to the point you don't know what else to do I would take a look at it for you no charge and tell you what I think the problem is and whether I can fix it. Just an offer if the situation doesn't get resolved.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
To the OP: I have a fairly complete machine shop in my back yard and have taken apart quite a few of these newer pivot bushing Spydercos. If you get to the point you don't know what else to do I would take a look at it for you no charge and tell you what I think the problem is and whether I can fix it. Just an offer if the situation doesn't get resolved.
Click to expand...

That's a great offer. :thumbup:
 
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