Mar 19, 1999
Hello folks, so, what do you think, the list is below.



Out of all, which do you think has the strongest lock, by this i mean which can have the most weight hanging from the handle when the blade is in a vise.
I believe Spyderco told me the AFCK would break before the Military. All I know is can't make either fail by torquing, whacking, or other abuse and I certainly can't make them break.

I think it's high time we stopped worrying about lock strength in excess of what we could reasonably apply. If your hands can't close it accidentally in your normal grip and a sharp rap on the spine doesn't make the lock slip closed, it's fine for whatever even a hard user might do with a folder. I want to say that neither I nor several friends who used to sell knives have ever seen a linerlock "break" in the sense of the liner folding, snapping, or otherwise suffering damage. Badly made ones may slip closed or jam open, but they don't seem to break without specifically applying ridiculous amounts of weight to the spine.


(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
Does the integral lock count? Because if it does, the answer is easy.
Without extensive testing there is now way to know for sure. Just getting our opinions will not really help you much.

Maybe Sal can release some secret test results from the MACHINE?

Better that he did not as it would not be kosher to expose that info in this type of venue but if I was a betting man (like I am not
) I would venture a guess that the Military would show very well if not win.

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Mike's totally right, the way to know which liner lock is strongest is to test. An opinion poll can only give you one thing -- a view of which knife has the *perception* of having the strongest lock. Which might be interesting in itself.

I also agree with Cord. Almost any well-made liner lock will be incredibly strong. I worry about all the emphasis on strength, since I've felt that issues such as reliability are more important in most cases.

To Joe T:

Thanks again for clearing me up on the liner lock relability issue in the Thumbs Up/Down string.

You pointed several things I will pay closer attention when evaluating any and all liner locks.

In regards to pure strength, one of the most extensive force evaluations I have seen was on the Military by Nemo and Fred. They described applying a lot of force to the Military, enough to cause the liner to buckle and induce blade play - but the lock did not collapse. This description is not in the online review, but it in the thread on it in the review section.

As for mechanical testing, be wary because usually it will involve the application of force in a very controlled manner. You will not be doing so in the field. This means that a direct translation of the results would be error prone.

In the custom category, for a good, solid work knife, Kit Carson makes the strongest liner lock I know of. Sorry to leave out any other custom makers who make them as good as Kit, however there is no one I know of who makes them better than Kit.

Kit brought a pile of knives to the recent Blade Show, and sold out almost all of them before the opening bell sounded. There are plenty of quality production liner locks available, but if you want the very best, save your money and buy a Kit Carson, you'll be glad you did.

Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.

David Bloch,
I'm thinking Military here?
Although, my BM 975 has held up extremely well.

God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!

I will second the motion for the Carson model 4. I got the third to the last knife he had at the Blade show (three hours after the show opened on the first day). These things are strong and smooooth. I trust this knife more than my Military and large SOCOM (both with perfect, IMO, lockups). It passed every test with flying colors and it still locks on the 1st 1/3 of the blade and is easy to disengage. Perfect! Also, there is no relief in the handle to accidentally disengage the lock. It won't unlock until you want it to. Any opinions, Kelly?


[This message has been edited by CPR (edited 28 June 1999).]
We are doing Linerlock testing and lockback testing over the next couple of months. All the heavy hitters will be broken... as well as the ones that make the claims 'we're strongest' etc.
We are doing this in an effort to make our design criteria more robust.
We would be happy to add to the broken pile any knives you feel worthy of our breaking. Just let us know what models you would like to see tested.
I don't see any reason not to allow this data to be published to the knife world even if we don't end up on top. I personally view this type of data as 'room to grow' data, not in the least bit derogatory. We would publish all testing methods and results. we will be doing this whether or not we publish the results because it allows us to improve our products beyond the normal expectations.
Just my .02
Jeff "have you heard the sound a knife makes when you clamp it in a vise? Kinda like a lobster." Hubbard

Jeff "Without data it's just another opinion" Hubbard
Quality Supervisor

Watch for Pete's Custom Knife Shoppe on www.buckknives.com

From: Ivan 6-28-99 648 PM EDT The only liner lock knife that failed my tests was a year old Cuda. The Cuda has a great blade ,but I am thinking that liner lock is not strong enough.
Ivan --

Just to keep things straight, you're saying the CUDA failure was one of strength? So the locking bar, liners, pivot, or stop pin actually broke or deformed? Or was it not a strength issue but a reliability issue, with the lock bar slipping off the blade tang? Many liner locks have reliability issues even though they're very strong. I saw a CUDA once, the lock didn't look particularly weak.

At SOF this past September I gave one of the Spyderco C48's to Lynn Thompson and his Cold Steel crew to put it through their grueling paces. A few weeks later I saw Lynn and crew at the Gunsite Edged Weapons symposium and I asked how it faired in thier tests, believe it or not he gave it a good review, saying it was about the strongest non-CS factory linerlock they had tested up to that point.
GOOD JOB SPYDERCO!!! Now if we could just get it made with a rolling lock?
Having talked to Sal, and seeing the "Destroyer". I will say that the Military is the strongest. I was suprised that it was stronger than my "other" carry knife, a semi-custom. So now, I carry either a Military or Starmate. I trust those locks with my fingers. I had my EDI Genesis 1 fail the spine whack test today... good thing I am right handed. I am sure the avulsion will heal in a few days.
Jeff -- truly, without data its just another opinion. I applaud Buck for the steps you're gonna take. Post the truth as we demand no less!

Joe T -- as to your CUDA q, please read this CUDA Lock Test thread

I am agast! Please by all means post your data or better yet get that digital camera in there and give us a BF exclusive.

Also you may want to post which knives you will be testing so we can through more into the mix. This is a major step in the right direcion for CJ and Chuck and I applaud their thoughts on this.

From the outside looks of it, it appears that Buck is looking very SERIOUSLY into some new designs. Is this so?

If so let us know and use the forum for input into new designs and names. Of course I offer my services for FREE trademark searches. Why pay the lawyers when you got me? Also Kit Carson stomps some serious butt with his liner locks and you already have a working relationship with him so pick his brain!

Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

To Jeff H. & Buck Knives:

Way to go Buck! I'd be interested to submit our new Magna (Kit Carson design) for the test. The first shipment is scheduled for August delivery. Let me know if this is not to late to be included.

Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.

David Bloch,

[This message has been edited by David Bloch (edited 28 June 1999).]
Congrats, Buck! And I applaud your willingness to publish the results whether or not you're on top! Maybe this will be one of the first steps toward open, unbiased testing for the purpose of improvement within the cutlery industry as a whole.
Am I wishful thinking when I state that I hope the results are made public in all the knife publications? Or might that not be considered commercially viable?

Whatever happens, it will be an eye-opener, not just regarding lock strength, but overall strength of construction as well.