Prologue at the funeral

Jan 21, 2001
Just when you thought it was safe to buy that commy chink knife from Wal Mart San. Here I go again. Its just that it makes the final point on what really caused Schrades demise. If anyone still remembers it. This has been quite a journey however when I make a statment that I feel is true I tend to stick with it. Or admit I was wrong.

If you recall back when this happened I made several allegations. One regarded the Schrade Collection well recently that point was settled and left to the reader as to what happened. It took some chiding but I give credit to Mr Parker who answered my concerns and I feel acknowledged that they had considered saving the collection and in fact doing a book on it however changed there minds and he says never told or intimated to anyone that keeping it for history was there intention. Ok I will not go into it again if you can read the thread. You decide.

Another point was Mr Taylor accquiring the Schrade rights at the auction I had said that I felt he had backing from foreign sources. Recently strangly enough I was in contact with Mr Taylor both of these people within a week of each other. A coincidence ??? In any event I must say Mr Taylor was an absolute gentleman. In fact he answered many questions that he did not have to. He maintains that he and he alone financed the Schrade buy. He explained points that frankly I had been unaware of. I thank him and give him credit. At the end of our conversation I said to him that I guess my only problem was dealing with a government which has sworn our extinction. He pointed out that no one could compete with them Taiwon is much more expensive, Japan is higher than us. ( Of course a big part of that cost is having enough political prisoners to work for a bowl of rice. My comment not his) He also stated that he has been there ( China) and felt better treated than in other asian countrys. People were friendlier. He also asked some of his associates about the communist government and the intimation was that at this point it was all about money. In other words the enemy was being in a subtle way seduced by capitalism.

I give Mr Taylor credit. He certainly did not have to offer me any explanation his reason for contacting me was in regard to the Ellenville exhibit that he had read about on the internet. Now while I do give credit it remains a fact that when he managed to secure the Schrade IP he knew where his manufacturing market would be and so did the chinese.

Now I make these points for a reason. I have claimed from the beginning that his entire scenario was orchestrated by a foreign government. That saying it was simply the fault of bad managment was what these forces wanted to be accepted as the main reason for the bankrupcy, while a much deeper cause and effect was put into place. The point here being China knew if Schrade goes under they own the market.

In order to effect this Schrade had upon large orders fram Walmart remachined and to compete starting putting out lower lines of product from China ( mostly assembled here ). I agree it turned out to be a bad decision ( bad managment) however without knowing what was really happening not a totally illogical one. They were in debt. How ever the bank that they dealt with had always backed any other moves with extra time. They had 1 million knives sold at the time they were shut down. They had all of the product to make them most of them were just waiting to be shipped and some only had to be paid for by the customer. A new bank buys the smaller bank in one of those giant type moves that you read about. The new bank comes in looks at Schrade and says you are insolvent and your note is due. Schrade says hey give us a little time here are the orders to pay you. Nope no good we hold the note now you are out. Why would a bank do that. Now they have an auction to liquidate the holdings. The collection is supposed to be auctioned off. It wasent ( reason given it would take to long to do it piece by piece ) .

Now you would think that since the individual sale would have brought in 10 or 20 or more times the amount ( who knows count up what Smokey has sold on ebay and to private dealers) that perhapes the new bank since it was so worried about money might have taken an extra day or two for the couple of million. No instead they sold to Smokey who I was told was going to keep it intact and in fact admit to thinking of doing just that but, didn't tell anyone they would, OK Yea Right. Smokey who upon selling the collection will use this revenue for what you may ask. Guess what to make Chinese Knives. So even thought the bank writes up a bankrupcy loss ( and writes it off ). It is all coming back to them any way. This was the same reason lots of materials and product were sold in giant lots rather than realistic sized ones because only a large outfit like smokey could store it. That is why they bought it for pennies. Hell the gooks still get to assemble the stuff, they havent lost a thing. Pretty smart AHHHH SOOO.

I have been told over and over that there is no complicity, no communist financial plot, that these are our business partners in a global economy no manipulation here hell it is as straight a game as seven card stud at the Mirage. Well in this case I have said from the beginning this whole line of bull was a mirage. However as usual I have been it seems tilting at the windmill all alone. I am attaching an article from todays paper which is the reason I am reopening this subject. From the beginning I have said that I realized there was nothing I could do but dammit I just wanted it known that not everyone was buying the crap. Hell you can bend me over but after you do don't tell me you were giving me a physical.

Here are a few quotes "Anger is growing in Congress over the trade and currency matter". "Our industrial base is bleeding away in upstate NY" One of the major factors is China's currency manipulation. Saying China dosen't manipulate currency is saying the sky is not blue. Released figures show upstate NY had lost 104,000 manufacturing jobs over the last 5 years which Sen Schumer blamed directly on China's currency policy. ( currency policys does what I have been saying sound like a currency policy??? currency, banks any similaritys ???). Sen Schumers calculations Orange county 3000 manufacturing jobs Jan 2001 to Jan 2006, 20 percent decline. ULSTER County ie SCHRADE 2,100 33 percent decline.

It should be noted this addresses market level prices however I guess that since obviously these people have our well being at heart they would have never been involved with the kind of conspiracy or actions I have been describing. Once again I am submitting this not to start this whole futile issue over but to make the point I stated from the beginning. LT PS if you cannot read it the article was in the NY Middletown record to day March 16. If someone can post a link I would appreciate it. If I spent more time learning how to use this computer instead of complaining about the state of the world I would be able to do it myself.
What was the name of the bank that foreclosed on Schrade?
IMHO manipulating currency conversion in the long run is bad for the country doing it, it has often been done by Mexico. Just thinking of short term profit and ignore the long term, I guess that's the way Walmart sees things too, they pressure suppliers into low prices/low quality and don't care what happens later.

The problem of lost jobs and a shrinking manufacturing base is a lot more complex than just currency manipulation by China. For decades, I've been buying Red wing boots. Last year, I bought a new pair of Red Wings that cost $160.00, and they were made in China. I don't know what it cost Red Wing to have them made, but they made a hell of a lot more money off me than China did.

The greedy American manufacturers that fired American workers and closed their American factories in order to have their products made by cheap labor in foreign factories are doing it to gouge the American public by selling their products at full price, not the Chinese price. Why aren't the manufacturers criticized? It's easy to blame the consumer for buying this Chinese stuff, but each year there are fewer and fewer alternatives in the marketplace.
redshanks said:
The problem of lost jobs and a shrinking manufacturing base is a lot more complex than just currency manipulation by China. For decades, I've been buying Red wing boots. Last year, I bought a new pair of Red Wings that cost $160.00, and they were made in China. I don't know what it cost Red Wing to have them made, but they made a hell of a lot more money off me than China did.

The greedy American manufacturers that fired American workers and closed their American factories in order to have their products made by cheap labor in foreign factories are doing it to gouge the American public by selling their products at full price, not the Chinese price. Why aren't the manufacturers criticized? It's easy to blame the consumer for buying this Chinese stuff, but each year there are fewer and fewer alternatives in the marketplace.

Yes,a couple years ago I read that Nike's cost of their $200 tennis shoes,is about $15.
A lot of this off-shoring is being justified in the name of "share-holder value".
The CEO's,etc.,are sure raking in big money while they're also closing pension plans.:mad:
Rich, I'm glad you had a chance to talk with Mr. Taylor, man to man, addressing some of your allegations. It was good of him to contact you.
Just some thoughts on your post:

Things did seem to go down with Schrade the way you predicted. And stuff happened pretty quickly- the China production must have been all ready to go-- after the IP and merchandise sale. Everything according to plan.

Smokey thought about making a photo book of the Schrade collection? Probably would have taken too much time and effort.. they had to get that stuff on the market. Too bad. Cripes, a person like Jim Parker could do a book on crap like the Fight'n Roosters and no one could take the time to document and photograh those treasures in New York? What was the plan, destroy all memory of our Imperial-Schrade and replace it with the 'new' China Taylor crap?

Even those of our leaders- political and economic- who were on board with 'globalization' are deciding it was a bad, bad idea. I live in Michigan, once a powerhouse of an industrial state. Now it's broken down, rusty, dirt poor with social services, education, general quality of life, on the level of states we used to smugly laugh at.

most of those knives LT spoke of were missing one thing or another that a supplier wouldn't provide because of lack of money
You are right I do not know what gets into me as delusional as I am I must have dreamt up the Senate investigation, as well . Schrade was only ONE CHIP as I have stated before look around you. While you have every right to feel the way you do and buy what you want and to post your opinion and to think what you want what you do not have it the right to tell me what to say think or post no matter how delusional, correct or incorrect you may think I am.

Your rights extend exactly to where mine start and mine start when you start telling me what to do think or what subject to post on (this is a Schrade forum I believe). I have shown what I feel is sufficient evidence for my point of view aside from a senate investigation for the very things I have been saying just look around ( read the statistics, look at why there is this senate investigation, the reason I started this thread, it shows that these actions have not only affected Schrade and NY put is just part of the overall continuing eroding situation and plan, that is the whole point ) you make up your own mind but do not ever make the mistake of telling me what to think or say. That is until you are cooking your rice cakes in Washington DC.

Yes I believe a country with a billion people cares about 30 mill here 30 mill there here a Schrade there a GM, E, I, E, I, O. I believe that the actions that invoked senate committee hearings might show at least as much credence to support this, as your opinion that I am delusional as well as your directions to me to desist in public opinion since apparently you have decided your unsupported opinion was vastly superior to mine.

"My arrogance and belittling", yup you are quite correct, here am I alone, picking on Red China, Smokey, Taylor and telling what really happened I am sorry I have scared or made these people in any way uncomfortable. in any way, with my AMERICAN arrogance, or belittled them with with what I feel is truth. Your right I am arrogant, I am damn proud, and I am entitled to my opinion. You betcha, I VELLY SOLLY if I offend BK san. However here is the difference I support and encourage you and or the entire 1 billion Communist Chinese to stand right up and voice there individual right of opinion ( even if there government will not let them say what they feel, I support there right to that, I would love to hear what any of them have to say delusional or against my opinions is fine as long as there statments are honest) if any one ever tried to take that right from you it would offend me as much as it should you. I would never suggest you amend your speech or opinion I guess that difference in us is why I support american products and america, including both our rights to voice an opinion, and that is why you have your opinions of this situation.

How about this lets say Smokey had nothing to do with anything and never intimated that they were keeping the collection to get a better price on it, lets say Taylor did not even know at the time they would be making Chinese knives. Lets say that there was no way the knives already sold could have been collected on, lets say the bank in no way was influenced by outside forces. Now is that OK there my delusions are gone. I guess that sounds reasonable to you so ok lets accept that as a given. I mean why would big China want a little piss pot like Schrade or everything else american that they have gobbled up? Now my only question is what promped the senate actions that were iniatied for the very reasons I have been stating ( OF WHICH GRANTED SCHRADE IS ONLY ONE SMALL PART ). That is why this thread was posted not to rehash the past but to vindicate my ( ie delusions). ( NOTE in the article Ulster county ie where Schrade was located was one of the two countys used as an example, Ulster showing a 33 percent lost of manufacturing during the period 2001 through 2006 which is being blamed ( by Sen Schumer ) on this type of manipulation. ) This might to those as delusional as myself preclude that since this is the exact time frame Schrade went under and since Schrade would have been the largest example in the county of this, that just possibly what actually happened to them might be being questioned by others than myself. I offer this information as substanciation for my opinions. I also accept your preponderce of evidence for your point of view. of basicly that I must be delusional to think that China cares about a small company like Schrade and that is why they were not involved. You are obviously a lot more politically astute than I . So I yield to your superior factual logic. you might consider forwarding your facts and opinions to the Senator for his consideration. You might need to he may be delusional also.

Some might agree with me some with you. If you feel my statments "blast you" , look at it this way I have not called you delusional so one good blast deserves another if indeed it makes a point. As far as knowledgable people who do not post because they find a difference of opinion objectionable enough reason not to voice there knowledge then perhapes there knowledge is as limited as there apparent resolve.

I also appreciate your leaving me a topic that in your opinion I may still address with some limited knowledge and expertise. LT PS Blast you.
Something smells fishy about BK420...
I can smell BK all the way here in Michigan. This is an old trick in web forums and boards, where a person can get a new user name with a few clicks of the mouse and then, in cowardly fashion, slip into troll mode to make points they don't have the guts to make while using thier familiar, usual name.

LT doesn't need me to defend him, BK, so I won't. He's a stand up guy, has been involved with Schrades and Schrade for a long, long time, and he doesn't screw around taking different web personnas when he states his views. His real name is easy to find here on the forum; he doesn't hide behind screen names. I've never known him to be wrong about a knife and I'm gonna toss my hand in with his on this issue.

As many past screen-name-changing trolls have learned in the past, BK, the admintistrators or moderators here can easily pin down who you actually are. And ban you all together if you get too nasty here. Back off.

************* (washing my hands of BK)*********************

Hey LT! Did ya see my new Navajo Schrade? What you got to add to that thread, any custom/fancy handled Schrades?

I think that BK420 first showed up here about the time MVPKNIFE started.
Maybe there is a connection there somewhere.:jerkit:
I see this notation on his profile:
This person has neglected to keep their email address updated and mail to them is bouncing. Your posting priviledges are limited until you put in a working email address. Once you have, you can leave this group by selecting User CP -> Group Members

I think LT speaks for a lot of us old geezers who have been around the horn a few times.It sure doesn't pay to trust any country who treats their own citizens like China has and does.
Today's younger generations are so wrapped up in "ME" and getting everything they want NOW,principles and recent history don't mean a damn thing.
Sooner or later,we're going to pay a very heavy price for the loss of our manufacturing base.

Do you have something meaningful to contribute...or are you just here to pick a fight? If you do, welcome to you. :thumbup:

If not, well, why don't you give it a rest.

Thank you for the welcome. Knife discussions are what I'm here for, I'm perfectly willing to drop the "other" discussions.

One quick question, I'd love to post pictures of some of my knives. How do you do it, is this something that's included with a membership upgrade?
Bowing down and chanting is more of an oriental practice and I believe you will agree it would not be something that I would particularly find beneficial. It seems more in your vocabulary and line of thought than mine. As far as being in my presence I would appreciate the opportunity to meet you so that I might indeed give you the break that I feel you want so bad. The difference being it would have to be an honorable meeting one on one and I doubt you could adhere to those rules.

How dare I, How dare you to tell me what I may say, I offer for proof of my opinion, the present Senate investigation which was established for exactly what I have been saying. You offer you own ecopolitical opinion on the global economy. You say I belittle everyone, yes. if statments with evidence belittle, what is your evidence, mine for what happened to Schrade is a senate investigation yours is your infallable understanding of global economics. Why don't we see how the Senate investigation comes out.

No one can belittle anyone, acceptence of that can only be in the mind of they who feels belittled.

You have come here for information of Schrade knives and Schrade statistics
the greatest statistic of Schrade is the truth of its demise. That is all I seek and your opinion, while unlike mine to you, is valued to me.

As far as scairing off MVP now that is funny Yup here I am one guy I scaird off a multi million dollar out fit. I must have done it when I asked if he had any extra cake at his daughters birthday party and he invited me down. Or perhapes when he called me a scholar and a gentleman. Yup I have scaird them all Smokey , Taylor, Red China and worst of all I had the audaucity to respond to your statments. BOO HOO BOO HOO. I am sure you can contact him directly and by the way I appreciated his particpation. I must be honest however and if my voicing an opinion is enough to scare someone off then they have a real problem with either truth or intestinal fortitude neither of which I believe are a problem with MVP. However I might have more of a question in your case.

You may find this hard to understand but you cannot offend me by using your right of free speech and your right of free speech is sacred to me. It still does not preclude your being wrong or having ulterior motives. I feel you have something meaningful to contribute every time you or any one posts. You see this thread would have gone its way without your illogical unsupported posts, and what I want everyone to know is the factual truth.LT PS BK I was writing this when you made your last post it stands but it is your call show your evidence. or let it lie or respond or do whatever you like. I am more that willing to let it lie however I feel I had to respond to your comments. Let it lie and the subject ( between us is closed )