purpose of tanto tip?

H

hd2k_va

Joined
Dec 27, 2001
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108
What's the purpose of a tanto tip? I don't mean the curved tips that are called tanto because the metal is not thinned out until the very point. I mean the blades with an abrupt transition, like the Emerson Raven.

I keep looking at them and thinking that you give up all that belly and usable edge for ... and the rest of the sentence never comes. What am I missing?

Thanks
 
I am not really sure either but I have heard this makes it "armor piercing". This is my thought.
 
I've seen a CS tanto go through a car door multiple times with little to no damage.
 
Originally posted by hd2k_va
...I keep looking at them and thinking that you give up all that belly and usable edge for ...
Click to expand...

Ease of manufacture. :D

That is a tiny bit cynical, but only a tiny bit.

I have heard, and I accept, that a geometrical, chisel-tipped blade can be used as a good scraper, and I think that is true. But that is about it. Anything else you want to name, a conventional straight and curved edge is just as useful or more so.
 
It's supposed to be extremely strong, especially in penetration. And some think it provides a usable surface for some tasks. The former is perhaps true. It is very strong, although the very tip can be chipped like most other points. The latter [useful surface] may be true, but I've never found the american tanto shape particularly useful. The edge angle is usually very steep and not good for fine work.
Ease of manufacture is probably right, especially with chisel grind.
 
Hey HJK, please email me...

Thanks,
RL

PS Sorry for interrupting
 
<b>When done properly</b>, a good "chisel point" (not really a Tanto tip at all) penetrates like a nightmare.

It's not all that practical in a utility knife, but in a folding fighter, it's an awesome tip style.

BTW, Emerson does it "properly."
:D
 
A tanto definitely isn't the most useful blade shape for me, but it does have some strong points.

A tanto makes a good steak knife, because you only have to resharpen the secondary point.

That secondary point can be useful for cutting something flat against a hard surface - think utility knife.

The primary (short) edge actually is good for scraping.

Strong point resists chipping better than most.

I carry one, but not as my only or primary knife.
 
...but I just carry them because they look cool. LMAO:D
 
I carry an Emerson mini CQC7B for utility. the flat edge works great as a utility knife and for scraping and the angle where it transitions gives me a precise area (think Exacto knife) um I love it too.
Brandon
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook
<b>When done properly</b>, a good "chisel point" (not really a Tanto tip at all) penetrates like a nightmare.
:D
Click to expand...

Originally posted by HJK
It's supposed to be extremely strong, especially in penetration.
Click to expand...

No, I'm sorry, but all this is just commercial hype.
Nothing more, nothing less.

A tanto point is extremely strong in penetration?
Sure! A steel punch is, too.
And as for penetration, sorry, but it just isn't there.
If you want to see what's good for penetration, look at the Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, or to any dagger built from 1300 up until today.
THOSE are blade designed with good penetration and point resistance in penetrating thrusts.
That shape, and that shape only, evolved thru 500 and more years of development for penetration purposes only.

The ultimate blade for stabbing is the traditional stiletto, with triangular, square or round cross section, or the "misericordia", analogous to the stiletto.

Japanese didn't use their blades for stabbing, they used it for cutting, and the tanto point developed that way for use on a blade which was the ultimate cutting weapon.

Fashion and interest for oriental weapons, hype on supposed extreme metallurgical performance all contributed to build the tanto point myth, which is just that: mythology.

Somebody said that culture has an inverted perspective: the farther it comes from, the bigger it seems.
This is one of the perfect cases to which this saying applies.

So, if you want a blade you feel comfortable with, because such and such experts told it's really good, and it looks cool too, go for the tanto pointed blade. Psychological effects are not to be underestimated and any personal defense trainer can tell you any weapon you feel confident with it's far better than a weapon you don't trust, when the sh*t hits the fan.
If you want a blade made for real penetration, together with good resistance, go for any western designed daggers.
And don't try to punch thru steel plates with it.
Daggers where made to make nasty holes into human beings, not steel plate.
The whole point in employing a dagger, in fact, was NOT to have to deal with steel plate in the first hand!
 
While my knowledge of the topic is limited, I've read that the tanto tip was originally deigned to penetrate the feudal samuri's armor while grappling. Apparently, in close quarters, they were more concerned with penetration than slashing ability. However; I don't really see a modern day application other than sales and marketing.
 
Alarion:

HJK didn't say that they were good penetrators, he said that they are strong in penetration. Take a F/S dagger and a CS tanto and stab a brick wall. Yeah, you might miss in a fight and hit something nasty like that. Which one still has a useful tip? :)

I think a lot of people don't find tantos useful because they have already made up their minds that a tanto is not a utility blade. As others have stated, the tip will be stronger than most other formats as it is thicker than most other formats. The tip angle makes a good scraper and push cutter too, if sharpened nice and fine. That secondary point works great, as already stated, as an exacto-type cutter. And boy does it do a great job of it. These knives are also usually much easier to sharpen that a more curvy blade, such as the Spydie Chinook.

I traded Maurice for a tanto folder to give the tanto a good run. you know what? I found it just as good as my AFCK, once I learned how to use it properly.
 
The tanto tips real advantage by design is the penetrating power.
For that specifically I think you get maximum affect and efficiency.
 
The thing is, you can grind a conventional blade with the same tip geometry and strength as the chisel-tip "tanto". The geometric edge profile does not add anything to the strength.
 
My EDC is a BM 910 HS. It is a great utility knife for everything I need. The edge is sharp and I cut lemons with it frequently. The straight edge is also good for opening boxes. Granted, you want a belly for heavy chopping, but most people do not use their folders for heavy chopping anyway. The tip itself also does not make the knife penetrate soft objects better, but the tip of a properly built tanto will hold up better if it happens to contact hard objects. It also does penetrate hard objects better because of the straight point and straight edge trailing away from the point, rather than a curve bringing more surface in contact with a hard object.
 
Originally posted by one2gofst
My EDC is a BM 910 HS ... the tip of a properly built tanto will hold up better if it happens to contact hard objects.
Click to expand...

Why?

This is a myth that gets repeated over and over, but the tip of a curved blade can be ground just as thick as that of a geometrical blade.
 
Originally posted by Alarion




No, I'm sorry, but all this is just commercial hype.
Nothing more, nothing less.

A tanto point is extremely strong in penetration?
Sure! A steel punch is, too.
And as for penetration, sorry, but it just isn't there.
If you want to see what's good for penetration, look at the Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, or to any dagger built from 1300 up until today.
THOSE are blade designed with good penetration and point resistance in penetrating thrusts.
That shape, and that shape only, evolved thru 500 and more years of development for penetration purposes only.

The ultimate blade for stabbing is the traditional stiletto, with triangular, square or round cross section, or the "misericordia", analogous to the stiletto.

Japanese didn't use their blades for stabbing, they used it for cutting, and the tanto point developed that way for use on a blade which was the ultimate cutting weapon.

Fashion and interest for oriental weapons, hype on supposed extreme metallurgical performance all contributed to build the tanto point myth, which is just that: mythology.

Somebody said that culture has an inverted perspective: the farther it comes from, the bigger it seems.
This is one of the perfect cases to which this saying applies.

So, if you want a blade you feel comfortable with, because such and such experts told it's really good, and it looks cool too, go for the tanto pointed blade. Psychological effects are not to be underestimated and any personal defense trainer can tell you any weapon you feel confident with it's far better than a weapon you don't trust, when the sh*t hits the fan.
If you want a blade made for real penetration, together with good resistance, go for any western designed daggers.
And don't try to punch thru steel plates with it.
Daggers where made to make nasty holes into human beings, not steel plate.
The whole point in employing a dagger, in fact, was NOT to have to deal with steel plate in the first hand!
Click to expand...



All very well and good, but there are a few factors to consider.

1. Folding pocket daggers suck.
(Unless there is some awesome new custom I'm unaware of?)

1a. Double edged blades are illegal for carry in most States of the United States. (I know you don't live in the U.S. but it's MY frame of reference.) If you can legally carry a Misericordia, COOL! But I can't.

2. Chisel tips (NOT Tanto tips, there's a difference.) do penetrate flesh extremely well. Better than your average "curved" tip, as the point catches in exactly the same way that a dagger catches.

Do they penetrate armor well?
I dunno, I'll let you know if I'm ever attacked by a mugger in armor.
;)

Don't be so quick to dismiss something as "commercial hype." Do a little test cutting and you'll find out for yourself that the chisel point is an excellent "sticker" design.
 
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