question about deleted e-mails

SkinnyJoe

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A friend of mine allegedly busted his wife after recovering deleted e-mails from the trash bin (as opposed to the trash inside the e-mail application).
This doesn't make sense to me, but then again, I am no computer expert by any means.

Can someone offer some insight?
 
she must not have emptied the trash. just putting an email in the trash doesnt get rid of it permanently unless you empty the trash after.
 
Deleted files on your computer are not actually deleted. They are given a different binary code header so that the computer no longer counts them as space, and they are not recognized in a routine search.

They don't go anywhere. They are still on the hard drive. There are programs available that will recover deleted programs, and they are routinely used when there is an unintended erasure or deletion of files.

That's why you need a file shredder couple with a rewriting deletion program. The shredder will parse the file differently when it saves it, then the rewriter will write multiple times in those areas (I believe DOD requires 5 rewrites to a particular file sector) containing code to overwrite any existing fragments.

One of my friends is a hands on network administrator, and he has had instances where he has recovered whole hard drives where they had been erased.

Robert
 
Nothing is ever deleted on your computer.

The best you can do is overwrite it.

Check out "ccleaner".It's free.You can overwrite up to 21X,which makes it pretty secure.Nothing is 100% secure.




[edited to add] I see midnight flyer beat me to it.
 
It really does depend on where her emails were stored, all of mine are stored online, NOT on my hard drive, she must have been using a program located on the hard drive to write the emails and saved the responses. Even when you empty the trash on the hard drive, the file is not gone. It just changes the file name so that the program does not see it. Most anyone can find the deleted files and change them back to a readable format, IF they have not been overwritten by new files or downloads. There are many programs that find and will restore most deleted files unless overwritten. The only way to completely rid your drive of deleted files is to use a military type program that writes 1's & 0's over all the disks up to 7 times on unused areas, deleted programs then are wiped for good.

Jim

Two beat me to it, slow typer here.
 
When you delete a file from a hard drive, what is actually happening is that the entry for that file in the file index table is deleted- the file itself is not touched. Think of it like deleting an entry from the index of a reference book. The info is still there, just much more difficult to find. There are programs out there that can find files for which the index tables entries have been deleted- if the space has not been overwritten you would be amazed what can be recovered. Forensic computer investigator types use a further program that keeps the pc from writing anything to the hard drive during investigation.

NSA and DOD policy for secure deletion, at least as of 5 or 6 years ago when I was current on this stuff, involved 7 low level formats, essentially writing nothing but zeros to the drive or just to the area needing to be secured.
 
Excellent responses.

So deleted e-mails from let's say yahoo or google actually end up on the hard drive somewhere where someone with a little bit of skill can recover them?
Would they be in the recyle bin or somewhere else?
 
It really does depend on where her emails were stored, all of mine are stored online, NOT on my hard drive, she must have been using a program located on the hard drive to write the emails and saved the responses. .

By online, do you mean inside a web-based e-mail folder, like yahoo?
 
Unless you do an overwrite and then "zero erase" the drive, you can still grab bits and pieces from the disk. Even then, you might be able to pick up some fragments, but it would be rare.
 
Excellent responses.

So deleted e-mails from let's say yahoo or google actually end up on the hard drive somewhere where someone with a little bit of skill can recover them?
Would they be in the recyle bin or somewhere else?

AFAIK, if emailss are not specifically saved to a local drive, they sit on the mail server of whatever company until the user chooses to delete them. As such, I don't think recovery is possible without a warrant for the yahoo or gmail mail server. Not likely to happen, I think.

But, if a user uses outlook, or outlook express, its possible to recover deleted emails. Doesn't even take all that much skill, just the right program.

If my memory is correct, this isn't the first thread you've started along these lines, SkinnyJoe. I hope your "friend" recovers or deletes whatever it is he's looking for. :D
 
If my memory is correct, this isn't the first thread you've started along these lines, SkinnyJoe. I hope your "friend" recovers or deletes whatever it is he's looking for. :D


You are correct. But, this time it's actually about someone else.

P.S. I am guessing if it's a web-based e-mail, one can go to the cache as well.
 
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Actually it is completely possible if you referring to the cache on the local computer. Anything you open in your web browser is temporarily cached on the hdd. The problem is timing, the cache becomes inaccessible after a certain amount of time usually due to being overwritten. With most online mail services you can just click the back button and see what is in someone's mail account even after they've clicked Log Out.
 
With most online mail services you can just click the back button and see what is in someone's mail account even after they've clicked Log Out.

I'm sorry if I'm blunt and/or rude but this is simply not true with any current online mail service that I'm aware of. Anyone who wishes need only log in, log out and try it for themselves. As well, and at least with yahoo and hotmail, checking the cache will do nearly zero good. I believe that you are thinking of antiquated (technology and all, antiquated is 5 years or 5 minutes ago) mail systems such as the old hotmail.

Although, apparently, it is still possible for computer forensic specialists to, sometimes and with little success, recover some parts of recent emails. See here:
Browser based email systems present more problems for the forensic examiner, primarily because the emails are never actually stored on the user’s computer. In older webmail style systems such as the classic version of Hotmail, this was not a problem as the browser software automatically created and saved multiple versions of files that were viewed in the web cache files and temporary Internet files. Despite this, since the inception of Web 2.0 technology, in many systems this is no longer the case. The technology underlying the more recent versions of most browser based email systems has developed considerably to enable improved and faster service. The downside of this for the e-sleuth is that these Ajax programming techniques provide a “non-cache” option to the browser. In other words, browsers no longer store email content in the browser’s cache.

In a recent case, we were able to recover some very recent emails from a system using Windows Live Hotmail but older messages were gone and even those recovered from unallocated space were fragmented and hard to use. Although in many corporate settings, company emails will potentially exist in multiple locations and remain a potent source of evidence, these developments will mean that the use of web or browser based email will afford added security for wrongdoers. We have seen many cases where browser based personal email accounts have been used for corporate misdeeds such as fraud, money laundering and intellectual property theft. The incentives to do so have now increased and the evidence of such actions is significantly harder to trace.
computer forensic world link

Myself, searching the cache just now, all I was able to recover from anything there was my own first name and the name of one person in my contact list.
 
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I this case ccleaner is not much help for really deleting the files. It just makes it easy to clear multiple places at once. The only way that you can truly get rid of the files is multiple wipe cycles with something like Darik's Boot and Nuke, but that hoses the whole drive. It is not a solution for killing files on a production drive.

The take away is not to use e-mail for anything stupid. If you would not want your neighbors knowing about it, do not put it in e-mail. It is telling that in the last 16 years of the white house (Clinton and Bush) a grand total of 1 e-mail was sent. It is too insecure and too easily compromised. I recall an interview with the director of the CIA where he said that he never used e-mail, at all. I always assume that anything I e-mail is being read as readily as this forum. Perhaps extreme examples, but there should be no feeling of privacy while using your computer.
 
Rough, I think missed the rest of my comment about the timing. If you walk try to do it +5min (or whatever the expiration time may be) later, then you are correct it doesn't work. But I seen with my own 2 eyes a person click Log Out on Gmail then walk away and someone click Back a moment later and all the previous person's emails sitting right there. Hell, I've done it myself in a "Wait, I forgot something!" moment.
 
So what would one do to just totally erase a hard drive? Does re-formatting chosen at bootup do that? Or is it still recoverable by a smartie pants at some point.
 
Unless that drive is wiped by writing 0's & 1's over the entire drive at least 7 times, much of that information can be recovered by smarty pants that know what they are doing.
Jim
 
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So what would one do to just totally erase a hard drive? Does re-formatting chosen at bootup do that? Or is it still recoverable by a smartie pants at some point.

Spooky, I just did that very thing last week to an external drive I had. I needed some more room so grabbed an old 320gig drive I had on the shelf, did a FULL FORMAT, then remembered that I had some old folders stored away on that drive!! :eek:

I downloaded "Undelete Plus" and "PCI File Recovery" programs, ran them, and recovered every single file that was on the drive! It took no special skills either. Just installed the programs, told them which drive to work on, and let 'em rip! Despite the full format of the drives, nothing was lost. This would not be the case had I begun to write new files onto the drive, overwriting the old ones. Think of a cassette tape. When you re-record over one, it wipes out what was there before.

The only way to be sure that you have really removed a file (which is actually a misnomer. You never 'remove' it.) is to use a file shredding program. This overwrites the section of the disk that has your file on it with a series of 10101010101010101010101010101, then writes again but this time with 0101010101010101010101, then again but starting with 1, again starting with 0, and so on. Do this enough times (DoD requires 7 pass but there are programs that will do 21 or more passes) and all traces of information are obliterated. Most hard drive security programs, drive utilitly programs, etc., offer this shredding tool.

Any time I give away a hard drive, I always run a DoD shredder on it. I wouldn't want anyone to see my collection of "Hello Kitty" posters... :o

Stitchawl
 
www.recuva.com

I've used this program to retrieve pics or emails I have accidentally deleted. Works well and best of all, it's free!
 
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