Regarding Dishonest Buyers Or Sellers On Our Forum.

G

Gene

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
1,769
I know this subject has been bantered about on these forums before. I feel though this is a subject that needs to be brought up regularly. Especially when it happens.

I noticed a private seller on the "For Sale" board had received a bum check from a "buyer". He luckily had not shipped the knife and smartly waited to see if the check cleared. Well, it bounced. He now says he will not name the "buyer" because he doesn't want to stoop that low. I realize few of us are accountants and a "bounced" check CAN happen now and then. I also know that unless this individual immediately makes restitution, HE SHOULD BE NAMED!

I have bought and sold over these forums dozens of times and I think these forumites are the most HONEST bunch of people I have ever dealt with. I know transactions should be handled with postal money orders or cashier checks. I HAVE taken checks from forum members, and some of them have been gracious enough to take them from me. Never once have I had a problem.

It is a risky venture at best to send a complete stranger your hard earned bucks for a knife. The best thing to do is see if that person is a contributor to the forums and E-mail a couple of the regular posters and inquire about that person. The LEAST thing you should do is that if someone tries to con you, step up and LET US FORUMITES KNOW!
 
While I agree that the "bad apples" should be named, please make *every* and I mean every effort to resolve any situation that you have before you take to the forums (or anywhere else) to speak ill of anyone.

I clearly remember more than a few cases of various trades and transactions that could easily have been solved with a simple phone call. I also know of more than a few where people didn't start talking until they realized that they weren't the only ones getting screwed.

So, when in doubt, try to work it out. If a check bounces, or you just aren't getting your knife, contact the person to find out what's going on. If you have done everything you can, ask someone else for advice, and then if you have to, go public. But make the effort first. Don't just reach for the keyboard to make a message here without trying to solve things.

Personally, if I buy something off the forums, I try to call and speak to the person involved, so I can get a feel for them. But that's just me.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 21 January 1999).]
 
I hope this does work out in a positive manner.
One of the greatest things about the knive industry that I have experienced over the years has been the high level of trust and honesty between dealers, collectors, makers (be they individuals or companies).
Oh sure a "bummer" flashes in the pan every once in a while, but none seem to hang around long.
 
Boy, that is a toughie. I think Spark is right, every effort should be made before you post the name unless it is a blatant ripoff. I have bought and sold many times on the forums and have not been burned nor have I have a disagreement. I think the people here are the best!
 
I agree with all the above. I do not condone jumping on the forums and blasting a person until every effort has been made to rectify the situation. But like Spark, I remember a couple of incidents where a member was burned and was afraid to speak up. It resulted in other members getting burned also. I know this because in the past a couple of these folks E-mailed me and asked for advice.

I am just saying that if every effort has been made, inform us forumites so that the situation won't happen again. I love these forums and again I'll state I've never transacted or conversed with a better bunch in my life. But if there is cons going on, LET US KNOW!
 
Gene,

I concur with spark that once every effort has been made, go public. Since last May I can only recall two transactions which settled to the level of whale excrement at depth. All the others were human errors, sometimes by a third party, although one I recall involved personal problems which distracted the seller from shipping for several weeks... not a good thing.

My personal experience has been exceptional. I've bought a digital camera, computer parts, and of course knives without any difficulty. I too either scope the individual out verifying their addresses and phone numbers by using resources available on the net, or as Spark does, give 'em a call. I do use credit cards any time that option is available simply as an insurance measure. But for those who don't take credit cards, dealers makers and individuals alike, I've been favored with my word being taken as my bond when I say that a check has been posted. My only problem has been with our friends at the USPS handling drafts I trigger through my online banking service. Normally they say it should reach my addressee in 5 working days, but I've experienced as much as 8 lately around holiday weekends. Frankly, as much as I've appreciated their trust, I'd just as soon have them wait for my check to arrive and even clear if it pleases them. I leave it to them and no one has been disappointed yet nor will in the future.



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-=[Bob]=-

Keep yer powder dry and cutters hair poppin' sharp!


 
I've been more than a bit liberal when it comes to my fellow forum-ites, I usually pre-pay purchases and have sent knives to folks on here to "examine" before they decide to purchase, totally at my suggestion, and I haven't been burned yet. I take personal checks from people I've "seen" on the forums and haven't had any problems and usually ship immediately when their check arrives.

I've probably spent in excess of $90,000 over the Internet over the last 4 years for purely personal purchases, mostly from individuals, and sold maybe $5k worth of stuff. I've never been burned. Ever. I've bought expensive audio equipment, watches, computer stuff, motorcycles, about $5k in knives, you name it.

However. Posting names in public over bounced checks exposes yourself to some legal liability that could fall on the forums, since they are "moderated". Remember how you walk into a liquor store and you see the "bad checks" hanging on the wall for all to see? This, in most states, is illegal.

Yea, it sucks, but that is the society we work in nowadays.

I use money orders for purchases from 7-11 or the Post Office. Under a buck and it makes the seller ship immediately when it arrives. I just sent off a cashier's check for $1300 yesterday to someone I've never met for an Icom radio. Oh yea, it still gives me the heebie-jeebies, but using my financial burn rate as a marker, your chances of getting ripped off are slim.

Naturally, you can talk to the person on the phone to make you feel better, only accept checks if you can sit on them a week or two before shipping, or just plain not take checks. Money orders are easy and cheap to get.

COD sucks. I don't like using it AT ALL. For the seller it sucks because it can take a month to get your money back (UPS). For the buyer it sucks because you have to be physically around when the UPS driver shows up at your door.

--Doug
 
I have bought around 30 or so knives from people on this forum, the other forum, and rec.knives, with no problems. One seller and I would have disagreed on what "excellent condition" means, but I was still getting a helluva knife for the price.

I usually pay with a MO unless I know the person. I certainly don't mind waiting for the check to clear if I am sending a check.

While I understand risk to the seller, there is also some risk to the buyer. Occasionally, I have been a little nervous that someone would just cash my MO and go. Never happened though.
smile.gif


My $0.02

Clay

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Clay Fleischer
cdfleischer@yahoo.com

"10,000 Lemmings Can't Be Wrong!"
 
The Internet is a wonderful thing, but a public web forum or news group does not make a good courtroom, or even a good mediation service. Problems with "Trial by Internet" include, but are not limited to:

1. Nobody is under oath.

2. Alleged facts can't be verified.

3. Reputations are easier to damage than to repair.

4. Site owners and moderators can be codefendants in a lawsuit. That's expensive, regardless of the outcome. Therefore, if a "trial by Internet" thread gets locked or deleted, it ain't censorship or favoritism, but self-defense.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
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