Round hole versus oval hole

C

culter

Joined
Apr 22, 2001
Messages
121
I'm wondering why Benchmade switched to an oval opening hole? Does it really improve opening? Or did they just do it so that they don't have to pay Spyderco for the use of their patent?

I haven't had a chance to handle a blade with an oval hole. But I like the round ones a lot and can't imagine why an oval hole would improve opening. If oval opening holes are an improvement why doesn't Spyderco do it as well?

Can anybody give me a comparison?
 
I think they changed to oval to prevent paying Spyderco.
I don't feel that one shape is really more effective than the other, they both work well.
Some folks have said the oval is more like the shape of their thumb. But if you look at the hole when opening the blade, you'll see that the flesh on your thumb conforms to the hole shape (unless you can somehow put your entire thumb through the hole!). I think the hole could even be square and still work.
I guess the round hole MIGHT have a small advantage when the thumb and blade move together (like a ball-and-socket joint--and you don't see any of those that are oval).
The only change I believe Spyderco should make is maybe larger holes for all of their knives. Alot of folks have made positive comments on the Military's larger hole.
Just my two cents worth.
 
IMHumbleO no hole is ever going to work as well as a round one. Notice how most studs are round? The only studs I have seen as not being round are disks on the top. I have some knifes with odd shaped holes, Myerco, Timberline, ect.... and I like them but it is real hard to improve on the round hole if you are going to put a hole on the blade. Just my .02 take it or leave it.
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INHO, BM switched to the oval hole to get around paying Spyderco and to pave the way for a new Axis AFCK, etc.

BM tried to say that the oval hole os more the shape of your thumb, but I think that is just spin because as the blade opens, your relative thumb position changes.

Hey, who knows, maybe they are still trying make the hole round and are having QC problems again.
 
Originally posted by culter:
I'm wondering why Benchmade switched to an oval opening hole?


I beleive the answer is someone at Bench made handled a Tom Mayo TNT and realized that the oval hole is SUPERIOR to the "round" hole...the oval hole opener on a TNT ensures a positive "grip" between your thumb and the blade allowing for a solid and sure flip to open it up.....check one out and you will never go back
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as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another....Pr.27:17
David Buhrer
Click to expand...
 
no no no - i handled 1 of the new BM AFCK's at the gun show last wkend and IMHO they are not as comftrable/easy to use as the old round 1's - i wont be buying 1, and the AFCK is my second favorite knife, after my SIFU - just my .02 worth.......
 
Seems like I have to try for myself. Maybe it all depends on the shape of your thumb
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ive owned my new mini afck with the oval hole and its more or less the same in my opionion. It feels a little bit different but it hinders nothing. I can open it just as efficiently as my old afck that i carried for a year. Get it... youll like it just as much im sure....
 
My understanding is that Spyderco had a patent on an opening hole in the blade. I'm sure Sypderco was smarter than to just patent a round hole. Spyderco has always used a round hole. They licensed an opening hole to others, including Benchmade. Spyderco's patent has run out so anyone would be free to use a whole without license. Benchmade is probably trying to differentiate themselves from Spyderco's round hole by using an oval one. My opinion only. I would be glad to listen to anyone from Spyderco or Benchmade.

No patent attorney worth his salt would allow a company to patent only a round hole. The goal of a patent is to make it as broad as possible. I'm sure the patent included all hole shapes.

My opinion only.

Bruce
 
I personally find the hole to be awkward to use now that I no longer carry my Delica. In fact when I handle the Delica now I can't even remember why I used to like the knife! Funny how all those BM, Sebs, Ralphs, MT, AL Mar, and CRKT knives can spoil you and change your opinion of a good blade.

How about fileworking the inside of the hole all the way around to make it grippier? That would be an improvement worth doing.

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Peter Atwood

email: fountainman@hotmail.com
 
It would seem to me that the circular hole is theoretically better than the oval hole but that functionally there may be little difference. It depends upon how "oval" the oval is.

When you think about how you open a knife with any "opening" in it (circle, oval, slot etc.) you are pushing against only a small section of the hole--the section opposite of the blade. The hole does help intiallly orient your thumb. As the blade opens, presuming your thumb positioning doesn't change much, the hole rotates under your thumb but the net result is that you, more or less, continue pushing on the same point of the hole--just with different parts of your thumb. As long as the hole fits your thumb, both oval and circular will function fine. Although, the circular hole, is seems to me, will best guide your thumb to an optimum pushing point throughout the motion. You start off pushing with the tip of your thumb and gradually rotate the force point to the side of your thumb.

A slotted hole, on the other hand, is more difficult to make consistent contact with the edge of the hole opposing the knife edge and there is a greater chance of slipping to the side.

Having said all that I should point out that I have only round-holed knifes (Calyspo Jr and AFCK) and one slotted-hole knife (Leatherman Wave). I do not yet have personal experience with the oval hole. The slotted Leatherman is sort of the extreme case of an oval with one large and one small axis of curvature. The only reason my hand does not fall off the Wave is that the edge of the slot against which you push is raised.

I don't much buy the oval hole fitting your thumb argument because it only fits your oval thumb at the beginning of the opening motion. Mind you that is the most important time during opening. As the blade rotates, the aspect ration of the oval hole to your thumb changes and you end up pushing with the "wrong" part (the side) your oval thumb against the oval knife hole (sort of forming a "T" with your thumb and the hole).

Theoretically that is.
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Just my 2 cents.

Regards,

David

[This message has been edited by David G (edited 04-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by David G (edited 04-26-2001).]
 
Steve-O muses...

Round holes, they say, make a Spyderco,
Bencnhmade followed up with the oval hole,
Betwixt and between 'em,
those holes get me steamin',

....

Hey! Can I get some input here!?!

:0 Steve-O
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Patents run out after a certain period of time. Spyderco wisely made the round hole their trademark, instead. Those don't have expiration dates. So, the round hole in the blade will go on belonging to Spyderco ad infinitum.

As I posted in antother thread a day or 2 ago, my right thumb doesn't work at all well with Spyderco holes. My left thumb does a bang-up job opening them. Thankfully, Spyderco was smart enough to come up with the reversible clip/lanyard hole and make some of their models truly ambidextrous.

If someone could just send me an oval-holed blade, then I could report on the oddity of my right thumb. Might get me to buy a BM after all. I do like the looks, tho hate the name, of the new Griptilion -- hint hint.
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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Well, if the round hole is a trademark, then it stands to reason that Benchmade can only use holes of other shapes. (For example, you don't see Pepsi using a Coke shaped bottle) Or else they would have to pay quite a royal sum to carry on using the round hole. Just out of curriousity, would it have been possible for Spydie make all shapes of holes its trademark?

Anyway, my own personal preference has been for the round hole. This has to do with the way I open the knife. My thumb presses flat down on the hole and swivels it open. I guess that if you use the edge of your thumb to catch the hole and flip the blade open, then the oval hole would probably work a little better. My experiences have been mainly confined to a POS imitation of a Spydie Delica, but with an oval hole, a genuine Delica, a genuine Endura and the Leatherman Wave. I can say that swiveling the blade open with the fleshy part of the thumb rotating around the hole is much easier with a round hole than an oval one.
 
The radiused trapezoid is my favorite.

Does anybody else find that the blue handled 940s are more comfortable than the green handles ones?

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 04-27-2001).]
 
Oval,round, I don't care........... But I bet that blue handle 940 'would' be more comfortable than my green one's. I'm still looking for one at the 'right price'.(hint-hint)
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teacher
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Hello. Interesting thread.

First, I would have to say that there are many types of "openers". Holes, studs, butterflys, autos, semi autos, triple actions, lobe, disc, rotating handles and some I've missed, I'm sure. Different strokes for different folks.

"All good, just different".

Benchmade has never been hung up on a particular type of opener. Lester once told me that they made all sorts of openers and they preferred that approach.

Spyderco on the other hand has trademarked the round hole as their "symbol". Spyderco must put a round hole in every folder they made or it can dilute their trademark.

The hole opener patent that Spyderco licenced to various companies expired last year. There were a number of honorable companies that paid Spyderco for the rights to use the hole, as well as a number of custom makers. Benchmade was one of them. Benchmade also paid additional fees for use of the round hole which was Spyderco's trademark.

Lester and I are old friends. After the demise of Pacific Cutlery Corp, Lester started Benchmade.

Benchmade was having a hard time getting a jumpstart. Lester and Mark felt that the AFCK could do that for them. The AFCK design (by Chris Carraci, Lester, Mark and Mel Pardue) was based on Spyderco's Police model. (If you lay one on top of the other, you will see the pattern similarity). Chris had done videos with the Police Model before designing the AFCK.

I decided to license Lester and the AFCK did it's intended job, IMO.

Benchmade is now a thriving company.

Spyderco decided to reclaim their trademark since we felt that Benchmade no longer needed the association and Spyderco relies heavily on it's trademark.

It had nothing to do with money.

Benchmade was honorable in using the hole and they were also honorable in returning it.

I hope that helps clear up any confusion.

sal
 
Sal,

That is the kind of story I like to hear. Two great companies with great products that compete honorably. Love it.

Dean
 
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