serrated and the law!

Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
23
would you think a serrated blade would look LESS threatening or MORE threatening in the eyes of the law?

on one hand, a serrated folder like the spyderco rescue, or delica should look pretty tame compared to many other folders like a emerson commander or whatever.

on the other hand, a lot of people find serrated blades to look intimidating because of the 'teeth'

which would you rather be caught with in a sd-situation by the police, a fully serrated blade or a plain edge?

some examples:

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1721_10978946
delica plain edge

http://www.spyderco.com/assets/product_images/medium/C11BK.jpg
delica serrated

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1722_6862118
rescue

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1721_17416671
rescue all serrated, also available with yellow handle

when carrying a folder for sd it might be a good idea not to carry the most intimidating folder around in the eyes of the law... but thats not so easy :confused:

then there's difference between serrated blades, a rescue, especially with yellow handle doesn't look very intimidating compared to a civilian for example...
 
to complicate things further, some people swear by the 'intimidation factor' (pulling a scary knife in order for the agressor to run away)
 
Pulling a knife on anyone is very risky,especialy if they are on something that makes them think they are bigger than they are.If you have to ues a knife to defend yourself or loved ones wouldn't you want one that worked good verses a scary looking plastic handled one?
 
On the one hand, i would agree that the serrations sort of seem like teeth and could be seen as agressive, but, on the other hand, its easier to argue the knife is carried/used for utility if its serrated, since the purpose of serrations is to cut things and not people.
 
Originally posted by A.R. Niemi
Pulling a knife on anyone is very risky,especialy if they are on something that makes them think they are bigger than they are.If you have to ues a knife to defend yourself or loved ones wouldn't you want one that worked good verses a scary looking plastic handled one?

Absolutely right. If you pull a knife it better be one that you know intimately and that you know will do the job. Otherwise you might become it's new sheath. When considering a carry for SD, there are much more important questions to ask yourself than whether it's a scary knife or not.

To answer your question though, if I were a cop I wouldn't care whether it was serrated or not, I'd be most interested in what it seemed YOU would be likely to do with it.
 
1. To me, serrations look more scary. Why? Because they look like teeth. Psychologically, it may be instinctive as we all evolved from animals (my apologies to those of the religious faith who opt for the Adam and Eve theory) and one of the first things many animals -- particularly mammals -- do in defense is bare its teeth.

In addition, it looks sharp and plain nasty by sight alone whereas you really don't know with a plain edge (be it a high end bowie, or a kitchen knife) whether it's really sharp or not until you cut with it. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Frankly, I don't think serrations/non serrations really matters to police officers. I don't know about Europe but many police officers in North America are just plain jittery, and suspicious by nature. Therefore, any large knife carried by a young urban male is likely to raise suspicions.

My advice is to make sure you have a reasonable excuse ready.


2. As for the "to expose"/"not expose" the knife in self-defense theory, I've argued this point before and although I respect the opinions of those from the Fred Perrin school who say "don't expose" the knife until you are ready to use it, I think that's really an overgeneralization. I really believe it depends on the situation and that you have to assess each situation differently. It depends.
 
I don't think the issue of serrations/non-serrations has any bearing from a legal perspective. Blade length, concealed/not concealed, type of knife (auto/bali, etc.) are far more relevant issues.
 
Imagine if the logic for knife laws was applied to cars, EVERYONE who drives is an automatic felony criminal because the CARS COULD go faster than the speedlimits and kill someone.

Back on topic, I don't think it'll make a lick of difference, whether you have serrations or not, there is no reasoning with unreasonable laws. :eek:
 
I think that serrated and non-serrated, is not really the main issue but rather using, and then admitting to using a knife in a self-defense situation to the Police. Either one (serrated or not) will get you in trouble. Although it won’t help to have a vicious looking serrated knife (read below in #4)
Take a look at Blade magazine Oct 2002 and the “Your Knife Rights” column by Judge Lowell Bray. It is the conclusion to a series of articles on knifes being used in crime or SD and the out come of the users. It lists 5 factors that will lead to a conviction of carrying a deadly weapon (even in a SD situation).

This is a direct quote from the article in Blade mag

“1 – Failure of the defendant at the time of arrest or trial to offer some acceptable explanation of why he had the knife. An explanation involving Self Defense will not be acceptable.
2 – Any proven connection between the defendant and any other crime, especially one involving a knife
3 – Any admission by the defendant that the item might be used as a weapon under some circumstance.
4 – The knife having a “not friendly” appearance
5 – The time of day – actually any time seems to do – at witch the item is carried. “

The only thing that I can conclude is that if you are ever forced to defend yourself, do so (only if you can't run out of there first) and leave before the police come and don’t worry if the knife is scary looking or not because either one is a bad thing in the eyes of the law if you use it to cut someone, even if that someone is trying to cut you.
 
Rarely you'll find people more comfortable with serrations than a plain edge, and cops are humans too.
With the exception of the Rescue (with the sheepsfoot blade), there isn't a knife that I've seen with serrations that look tame. You want to check the law before you make a purchase.
By the law book, serrated or not, it doesn't make a difference, but if you're not lucky, the judge might just nail you for having a knife in the first place, not to say whether it has serrations or not.
 
I don't think serration(s) mean one damn thing to the cops ultimetely ;
perhaps if you "threatened" to cut
someone with one, then the cops would take offense ( given that the
"victim" pressed charge(s).) The
"heat" down here in Ft. Laudy told me about my knife :"We're not worried about your damn knife, we'll
just "blow you away"!( so much for
how cops view knives (serrated or otherwise!)) I do enjoy Judge Bray's column in BLADE magazine, but having worked for a Lawyer in Connecticut, I find Judge Bray sometimes is "spectaculating on how many fairies
can dance on the head of a pin" -or-
"splitting fine hairs" which is the brief of ANY Judge. I carry my goddamn SE cricket, SE Merlin & SE Jester ( on a bead chain around my neck ) ALL in plain view, with no so much as a cross eyed look from populace -or- police. And that, gang, is my "spin" on this matter.


AET ;)
 
as far as the list of what causes convictions, i would say all are good except #1, at the time of arrest/being mirandaized, i (and most crim defense lawyers) will/would reccomend ya keep your mouth shut until talking to counsel.

sure, tell them you are the good guy, he tried to rob me (in example) etc, then say ya are flipped out about all this and will make a statement in the AM, or when ya talk w/your lawyer.

sometimes, esp. under stress, ya get confused/etc, ya dont wanna say something and have it come back to bite you, esp if ya are in the right. most LEO's will understand this, sure ya might get arrested, but in most SD situations, ya will prob be arrested /go to court anyway, ya are not helping yourself trying to explain something at the scene, the police usually are not trying to help you, only to close a case, imho

greg
 
Personally, I don't think police officers deserve any explanations if you are complying and abiding by the law.

If it's legal to carry a folder, serrated or otherwise, and you are a law abiding citizen then I don't think you need to give any explanations and they don't deserve one.

If they were to ask me, I don't have any hang ups about telling them I carry it for self defense. In fact, I told a 911 operator that same thing after an altercation when I had to pull my knife on someone for self-defense (I have mentioned this incident before here at BladeForums).

They gave me that standard b.s., "We don't advise you do that sir, since you could get hurt as well..." I turned around and told them that whenever I do it their way by calling the police whenever I see trouble brewing they never show up. Therefore, I have to take steps to protect myself, my property, and my neighborhood since the police can't/won't do it for me and my neighborhood and it's my right as a citizen to do so. Obviously they had no reply because they knew I was right.
 
I don't think it would make a bit of difference if a knife were serrated or not. If someone was carrying a "fantasy" sci-fi type knife then that might get some unwanted attention but other than that, any legal knife, would not.
 
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