Setting Up?

S

Studlysmurf

Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
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I like axes, and I have a lot of them. I also read about axes a lot and although I am certantly no expert in any way, shape, or form i sort of think I am no nimrod on the subject. Recently I have had a lot of interest in restoring old axes and improving what I have, but I have some questions. I have read all the articles on Old jimbo's site and have learned a lot. He throws around a term a lot which is "a properly set up axe/hatchet". What does he mean by thi?. What does it entail? I am talking about bevels, and thinness of grind, and edge geometry and all that jazz. Could some of you enlighten my ignorance and help to turn my chopping or splitting expirience more blissful. Thanks in advance...:)
 
thank you for your welcome. i have already read that article. But my question is why are uneven ramps, a problem, and how do you fix? Also how do you determine the correct bevel angle and is a belt grinder the best tool for the job? I guess i am asking why does/ how do you get the right ramps and bevel angles, and what makes them better in terms of cutting efficiency. Sorry if that is confusing...
 
I barely ever get out of the WS&S forum. I just figured out this place was here!

Studlysmurf said:
But my question is why are uneven ramps, a problem, and how do you fix?
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It is all about efficiency.

The best thing you can do to enhance any axe is to set up the cutting bevel first. That alone will get you a long way (chopping, bucking, small kindling, cutting, etc). Once you get past that point in the head, you have to look at how the wood will contact the head.

First, the concave head bevel will basically provide no friction. It is air :D But, it has to come in contact with the head again. Axes like wetterlings and GB have a very thin blade and big eye. Meaning that (even if it were smooth) the curve to get around the eye is steep! So, that is where angle becomes important. Use your own judgment. If it looks steep, and tough to get by, it probably is.

Now, let's talk about unevenness. If there is a high spot in the head, it will tend to want to dig. By having the head sides even, with good angle, and SMOOTH, stuff slides off nice.

Is that making any sense?

Studlysmurf said:
Also how do you determine the correct bevel angle and is a belt grinder the best tool for the job?
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I am not sure if I am going to answer your question correctly or not. So, feel free to ask more questions.

I assume you are talking about the cutting edge bevel? If that is the case, the correct bevel angle is determined by your intended use. If the convex edge is too thick, it will be damn tough, but you will have poor penetration.

If it is too thin, you will have great penetration, but it will not stand up to much use.

I determined my best cutting edge bevel through grinding, trial, grinding, trial, coming up with what I liked best. Afterward, I compared it the 1:1 jig in "An Axe To Grind" and they pretty much lined up perfectly together :D So, that could be a good place to start.

As far as using the belt sander, that can be tricky. I am assuming you mean a 1x30 or 1x42. The reason I say it can be tricky is that the edge profile needs to be put on in a fanning shape to be the most efficient. Correct profile in the center, and slightly thicken towards the edges (if you don't know why, let me know and I will gladly explain). That can be very tough to do with a belt sander alone.

A belt sander will put a nice even convex across the face (like a GB comes setup). However, I believe that is only half the equation.

If you are interested in the "fanning" type edge, let me know and I can tell you how I do it (but I don't expect you to have the tools I do), or how you can do it by hand.


B
 
thank you very much for your comments. Yes i was talking about the cutting edge bevel. So fanning edge? how much of an improvement in cutting power, excuse me cutting efficiency. So determine bevel angle through trial and error. Smooth head? I already polish my heads not to a mirror finish but i imagine that it is plently smooth. So although a belt sander may not be the best tool for the job in terms of a creating a cutting bevel, would it still be worth it to get one? And yes i am talking about a 1X30 belt grinder. This has been very helpful and I appreciate it very much. Hopefully soon I will find chopping nirvana
 
Studlysmurf said:
So fanning edge?
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Here is the sharpening excerpt from an Axe To Grind. Very good info.

It explains how the edge is fanned over the surface of the axe. But doesn't tell WHY. I will get to that later.

Studlysmurf said:
how much of an improvement in cutting power, excuse me cutting efficiency. So determine bevel angle through trial and error.
Click to expand...

The right edge profile makes all the difference in the world. As mentioned earlier, my "trial and error" profile ended up matching almost EXACTLY to the jig shown in the link above. If you can set up your edge close to that profile, I think you will be in business :thumbup:

Studlysmurf said:
Smooth head? I already polish my heads not to a mirror finish but i imagine that it is plently smooth.
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Smooth is always going to be better. I show pictures of my highly polished heads, but that is really a side effect of grinding the heads EVEN. If you can lay a flat board across an area of the head, and it doesn't contact the full thing (you have to rock it back and forth to contact the whole area) then it is not even.

You have to realize that I am getting REALLY picky here. Most people won't realize or care the difference in evening up that portion of the head does. I do. The biggest gains you are going to getting the cutting edge set up right.

Studlysmurf said:
So although a belt sander may not be the best tool for the job in terms of a creating a cutting bevel, would it still be worth it to get one? And yes i am talking about a 1X30 belt grinder.
Click to expand...

Actually, once you get the "fanning" profile of the head set up, the belt sander is great for maintaining sharpness. You really only have one long setup session. The rest is maintenance. Besides, the belt sander can be used on knives, mower blade, you name it. I would highly recommend one. The only thing I would add is to consider how much you would use it, and consider upgrading to a 1x42.

Now, let me talk about the "fanning" profile. You may find out that the added performance is not needed. For example, take a look at a GB axe. They come extremely sharp out of the box. There is an even grind all the way across the face, and the profile is good. Therefore they chop great, and that may be just fine. But, IMO, the fanning profile is even better, here is why.

Most smaller axes are used for smaller wood. If the diameter is less than the size of the axe face, you will probably not notice any difference. When the wood starts getting larger (2 to 3 times the width of the axe edge) you have to start doing the inside/outside or the inside/outside/middle chopping technique. Let's take a look a the last one: inside/outside/middle chopping technique in order to get the chip to pop out of the wood.

That technique is the only way to do it. First the inside chop, the heel of the axe should not be buried in the wood, or the chop will stick. With the fanned profile on the head, the more obtuse convex near the heel will tend to open the slit in the wood, and keep the axe from sticking. With the outside chop, the toe of the axe is not buried in the wood, and works the exact same way as the heel did previously. That is the real importance of the fanning profile on the head.

Finally, the middle chop is relieved by the inner and outer chops and will keep the axe from sticking. Doing that any other way will result in a sticky axe, or a lot more work than is necessary.

Is that clear as mud, or what? :D

I realize I tried to pack a ton of info into a short space. If you still have questions, ask away.

What axe are you trying to set up, btw?

B
 
No, I am pretty sure I get it. Not too confusing. Evenness, smoothness/ polishedness (hmmm... is this a word, proper cutting bevel, a checklist not too hard to understand. Which axe am I trying to set-up? Well let's see, a Hults bruks hatchet, an old estwing i found in my yard and refinished, a cold steel trail boss, and a wetterlings large hunters axe i just ordered might need it, i also have a GB scandanvaian forest axe, goodness what a tool. I will also get a bunch of axe and hatchet heads from my grandparents when i go up to see them over thanksgiving break, very excited for those projects. hehe lots of old well tempered steel just waiting to be coaxed back into service, i can just hear them whispering me, me, me i want to chop!!! well thank you very much for the help, and i will try to find myself a decent 1x42 belt grinder, gosh i just got an edge pro and now i need more sharpening tools, haha never ending cycle i guess
 
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