Sharpening Equipment + Sharpmaker Question

J

JamesA

Joined
Jun 2, 2001
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696
1) I have the 204 Sharpmaker, and I'm very much enjoying using it -- it works very well. However, I've been backreading threads on the forum -- seems like there's a LOT of different sharpening equipment out there.

So my question: what else do I need/want? What equipment can do things that the sharpmaker can't? Will a diamond stone, an ultrafine benchstone, a strop, a steel -- are any of these necessary/desirable, and if so, why?

2) Regarding the Sharpmaker: I know the instructions say to hold the knife vertically. However, that's just one angle; if I'm looking -down- at the knife as I sharpen it, is the blade supposed to be perpendicular to the base of the Sharpmaker? IE: Am I supposed to point it straight forward?

I ask because when I hold it perpendicularly (is that a word?) it seems like only the corner of the stone is touching the knife. I need to angle the knife five or ten degrees to the side to get the edge to lie flush on the stone.

I know this is probably a problem with my technique, but either way: does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Since you already have a 204, my suggestion would be to make or buy a strop next. You will be amazed at the difference a good stropping can make in an already sharp edge.

I also believe that every knife knut should learn how to use a benchstone (natural, ceramic, diamond, whatever) at some point. I like my ProFile set quite a bit also.

Paul
 
James,
I'm going add to what Paul has already said and I'm going to recommend the Hand American PC10 Leather Hone as the perfect compliment to your Sharpmaker.

A leather hone (or strop) will take your sharp edge to a "whole new sharpness level". That's a good thing, by the way.:)

After sharpening, as you would usually do, you finish the edge by polishing it on the leather hone/strop.
And as an added bonus, if you catch the edge before it's really dull, you can just simply touch it up without having to remove any metal using the sharpener.

Give this one, or any other strop for that matter, a try. I'm fairly certain you won't be sorry.

--The Raptor--
 
Also pick up a coarse benchstone. When you get a knife with a thick edge and you need to grind in relief, you'll get the job done much faster if you use a coarse benchstone. After the stone, use your sharpmaker and your new strop!
 
For a very polished edge the Ultra stone is the dogs thingys! A steel is great if you have a user knife that requires a quick toutch up or if you want to straighten out a blade to make a sharpening job a lot quicker (helps iron out nicks etc).

The 204 is enough for 99.999999996% of the world and 14.765906% of KnifeKnuts;) !
 
Question about that leather hone... Will that polish the face of your blade? i.e. de-satinize it (coined a new term there). If I were to hone, for instance, my Military on it, would it polish the word "Military" off??

What's the advantage to using that over just buying some of the chromium oxide powder and using an old scrap of leather?

-Matt
 
This is mostly on topic, I think:

Will a strop or a steel get a blade any sharper/more polished/more true than a good sharpening on the Spyderco ultrafine benchstone? (If so, I assume you'd chronologically go benchstone-strop-steel, since the steel doesn't actually remove metal?)
 
Mudele,
If the strop is used properly it should not touch the face of the blade. Only the edge will be in contact as when you sharpen.

James,
IMO a good strop, properly loaded with strop compound (whichever kind you like), will make a blade sharper. All it is really doing is taking off the micropscopic burr that is left on a knife. I can also take a slightly dull knife and strop it a few times and it's back to shaving sharp again. A steel will do similar things but not exactly. A steel mainly aligns the edge and straightens any rolled sections.
 
JamesA,

2) Regarding the Sharpmaker: I know the instructions say to hold the knife vertically. However, that's just one angle; if I'm looking -down- at the knife as I sharpen it, is the blade supposed to be perpendicular to the base of the Sharpmaker? IE: Am I supposed to point it straight forward?

I think I know what you are saying here. When using the corner of the triangle it doesn't make much difference. When using the flat portion the handle will have to angle towards the inside of the sharpmaker to keep all of its surface in contact with the edge as you get to the belley of the blade.

Hope this helps.
 
You definitely need a steel. I use a perfectly smooth steel. This kind of steel does not sharpen at all. Still, it should be used religiously, every time you use the knife in the case of softer-steel knives (like kitchen knives), and after hard uses with harder steel knives (like your ATS-34 or VG-10 spydercos). In use, the edge tends to bend and come out of alignment. You might not be able to see it, but rest assured the edge does bend a bit -- after all, it's very thin metal. Many people run back and sharpen at this point. But a few light strokes down a smooth steel will completely re-align the edge, and the cutting performance will come right back with it. Your maintenance kit is absolutely not complete without a steel, and the know-how to use it.

A strop isn't strictly necessary, but it's a great tool in your sharpening arsenal. It can be used two ways. You can routinely take just a few swipes on a strop after you sharpen, to finish off whatever is left of the burr, without changing the resulting edge finish too much. Or, you can use the strop as a final extra-extra-fine finishing grit, to really razor polish your edge. It will most leave a different finish than your fine spyderco stones. However, keep in mind this kind of razor polished edge is incredible for push cuts (like shaving), but is absolutely miserable if you're trying to do something like slice through hard poly rope, where a much more coarse edge will work much better. I typically just take a few swipes on the strop to make sure the burr is completely gone. However, I do have some knives that I like to optimize for push-cutting (my Calypso Jr. for example), and those get a good stropping to razor polish the edge.

Perhaps the most useful addition to the Sharpmaker is a big, x-coarse benchstone. The problem with your Sharpmaker is that it has two preset angles, which in my opinion were well-chosen. Unfortunately, many knife manufacturers put much too obtuse edges on their knives. The first time you put a knife with a 25-degree bevel on your spyderco, you'll have to take off 5 degrees per side in order to raise a burr with the 20-degree hones. It's even worse if you want to raise a burr with the 15-degree hones. An x-coarse hone can reduce what would have been a 1 hour reprofiling job into a 5 minute reprofiling job. I use a DMT x-coarse 6"x2" hone. It removes metal incredibly fast. Note that after you reprofile the blade once, you'll never need to do it again.


Joe
 
Originally posted by JamesA
This is mostly on topic, I think:

Will a strop or a steel get a blade any sharper/more polished/more true than a good sharpening on the Spyderco ultrafine benchstone? (If so, I assume you'd chronologically go benchstone-strop-steel, since the steel doesn't actually remove metal?)
Click to expand...

I haven't used Spyderco's ultrafine hone, but in general I've yet to meet a benchstone that could beat a strop in terms of razor polish.

With steeling, I do not steel as part of my sharpening process. I believe that when I'm doing sharpening, the edge of my knife should be perfectly aligned. Since the main job of the steel is to re-align the edge, there's no need to steel after I'm done sharpening. I have tried it, and see no difference at all in performance by steeling right after a sharpening session.

However, after use, the steel does a wonderful job of re-aligning the edge. Judicious use of a steel can put off for weeks the time between re-sharpening. Pretty great, considering how quick and easy it is to steel, compared to the work required to resharpen. Don't resharpen unless you've steeled and the edge hasn't come back.

Joe
 
OK, I have read, several times, about steeling the knife but what is the "steel"? Is it the round or cat eye shaped tool that comes with most cutlery sets?
 
I picked up a nice accessory for use with my Sharpmaker. It's made by Lansky and it's a type of eraser. Feels grittier than a standard rubber eraser. I can't remember the name of the product though. It's great for cleaning the sharpmaker stones. The sharpmaker cuts nicely if the stones are clean, but once they get loaded with metal they dont cut as well. You can just erase on the surface some and they cut better. (not quite as good as a good scrubbing with a scotch-brite, but it's quicker and easier)

Okay, a steel question. I put a good edge on my Calypso Jr. last night, but there was a little bit of burr left. (I can never seem go get that last bit). I have a grooved steel by Henckels (I think) and tried it. Mistake. It really tore up my edge. Why can't I find smooth steels anywhere??? Where do you guys get yours?

--Matt
 
I use the smooth steel from Razor Edge. I've heard nothing but raves about Hand American in general, so I'm sure they're a great bet, too (link posted above).

Grooved steels can be great for ripping up and destroying an edge. Some don't, but many really just seem to make things worse. I think there's a basic misconception that a steel has to be grooved in order to do something, so companies keep making them.

Joe
 
The only knives I really use are my non-high-class steel kitchen knives, but these knives do their job for weeks without re-sharpening, because I continuously use a smooth steel.
The usage is simple, test with one of your fingernails the edge, if you feel a resistance or a scraping at one side of the edge you know the edge is bent in this direction. Then stroke this side of the blade (in the same angle as the egde was sharpened, that is to say in an acuminate angle) several times along the smooth steel. After that test the edge again, if you do not feel a resistance, all right. (Please note, if you had stroke with an obtuse angle maybe the edge is bend to the other side) If you feel still a resistance stroke again till you do not feel the resistance. In place of a smooth steel you can also use the back of a knife.

Horus
 
OK everyone listen up!!!!!!

Whatever you do, re-read what Joe Talmadge has posted here in this thread!!
I agree with his opinions (actually, IMHO, more like facts) wholeheartedly!!:)

I want to add to this discussion that I have found that steeling after sharpening can, if anything, actually make the edge a little less sharp. Also, I can recommend the Hand American Glass Smooth Steel as a quality product. I only wish I had the Razor Edge steel as well so that I could compare the two.

--The Raptor--
 
I use a folding steel from Razor-Edge, but I'm tempted to try some of these burnishers from Ron Hock. IIRC someone here said that they fit nicely in the holes in the Sharpmaker. It would be interesting to compare a larger diameter steel like these burnishers, or the Hand American steel, with the thinner steels from Razor-Edge. I think John Juranitch claims that they require less pressure due to the smaller contact area between the blade and the steel.
 
Joe Talmadge :

I've yet to meet a benchstone that could beat a strop in terms of razor polish.
Click to expand...

Joe, don't you have some very fine Japanese waterstones, 4000 / 8000 grit?

-Cliff
 
Horus -- I can't tell when to steel, based on just feeling the edge with my fingers. Well, obviously, if the edge feels out of the alignment, then it's definitely time to steel. However, most of the time, even if the edge feels perfectly aligned to my fingers, I can still see a performance gain after I steel. Sometimes, the edge doesn't feel misaligned, just not as sharp as it used to feel. So for soft-steel knives, like kitchen knives, I say to steel before each use. For hard-steel knives, I suggest steeling as soon as any appreciable performance degradation is felt. With something like ATS-34 cutting soft materials, it may take many uses before there's enough edge rolling that steeling will help.


Joe
 
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