Sharpening systems

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BryanH

Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
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I know everyone likes the Sypderco Sharpmakers and all, but is that just for a "bang for the buck" factor? I'm trying to choose between a Sharpmaker, a Lansky sharpening system, or a DMT sharpening system. I'd like one with good quality, but also be able to put sharpen different kinds of edges, etc.

BryanH
 
I prefer the Lansky. More precise angle control than the Spyderco Sharpmaker. The hones on the DMT are quality diamond but the clamp is not that great. Lansky offers diamond hones but most THINK DMT is better. I would buy a Lansky angle clamp and use DMT hones in it.
 
The problem with any "clamp" based system is keeping a consistent angle on your edge.

If you have a 6" blade and place the clamp in the middle, the angle will be acurate in the 1-2" in front of the clamp anything past that and the angle will become more acute the further you go out.

Example, if you're using a 20 degree angle on a 6" knife with the clamp in the middle, the angle at the tip & tang may end up being 23 degrees.

The advantage of a Sharpmaker or similar system is that the angle is kept consistant throughout the entire length of the blade.

I personally use a Sharpmaker for maintenance and a set of DMT stones rigged in my own "homegrown" device for re-profiling. Produces a razor edge every time.

The sharpmaker will sharpen almost any type of edge, as well.

I have one chisel ground blade that I use a combination of the DMT bench stones, a DMT folding stick and my buffer to keep sharp as a razor.

Most of what I've mentioned is pictured HERE, scroll down to Miscellaneous and select "Sharpening".
 
First, I would NOT get a diamond hone. Lordy but they remove metal VERY fast indeed.

Quick story about diamond hones:

I bought myself one of those DMT folding diamond hones, to sharpen my Buck Crosslock, and never mind that I had no idea how to really sharpen a knife.
Long story short, I ended up, with no effort at all, completely reprofiling that poor crosslock. When I got done the blade was more like some bastard wharncliffe style. I just could not believe how easy it was to utterly destroy a knife blade with the dimond hones. This happened about 3 years ago, and hopefully I have learned at least a bit since then.

Get a good extra course and a fine hone, an angle guide from razor edge systems, and you should be setup for sharpening most any plain edge knife. The extra course hone is great for setting the relief and getting a good bur, and the fine is just what you need for finishing up...at least, that's what works for me.
The angle guides takes most of the guesswork out of the process, and keeps your angles consistent.

For serrations, the Sharpmaker is a great solution.
 
While the angle control on the Lansky appears to be "better" than on the Sharpmaker, I found that with practice, eyeballing a vertical stroke on the Sharpmaker is quite easy and consistent.

I found that the amount of pressure used on the Lansky system by your hand affects the true angle of sharpening since the rod will deflect and change the angle.

I also found the various parts and pieces of the Lansky eventually became tedious to use versus the ultimate simplicity of the Sharpmaker.

Also, cpirtle hit the nail on the head, the Lansky system seems to be ideal for sharpening a 3 inch to 4 inch knife. Smaller (like a 2 inch blade) and larger (any kitchen knife) and the angle of sharpening gets distorted. Plus, no oil with the Sharpmaker.

Also, you can now get diamond hones for the Sharpmaker (although pricey).
 
I agree with Mike, as I had a similar experience. I gave my diamond hones to a friend who messed up many knives by removing too much metal.
 
I agree you have the capability to remove much blade stock with diamonds which is why I would only reccomend them for edge re-profiling.

I would also suggest practicing on junk knives to learn how much to remove, how light of a stroke to use etc..

What I can't agree with is that the sharpener removes to much stock. The sharpener is only going to remove as much stock as you allow it to, you just have to remember that it does it about twice as fast as a traditional stone.

I ruined more knives with a Lansky than I can shake a stick at, never screwed one up yet with diamonds.
 
After an entire thread dedicated to questioning, complaining and wondering about the usefulness of the sharpmaker, I can say one thing. It does work. If it is all you have, then you can make it work for you. Reprofiling is a pain, but you only have to do it once. Also, the brown stones will sharpen to a razor edge free hand if you have the skill and patience. This allows you to match the factory angle rather than reprofile. Serrations can be made very sharp, as can recurved blades. The sharpmaker will round points, but it will also sharpen them, if you pay attention to how it works and what you're doing. If you can afford more than one system, I recommend a DMT blue benchstone and blue tapered rod to go with the sharpmaker. The DMT's are only used to remove chips/damaged areas, and reprofile if you can hold the angle. The DMT will remove metal fast, but just pay attention and check the progress every 10-15 strokes per side and things should be fine. Also, using a marker to color the edges works really well if you want them close to perfect on each side. The DMT benchstone is capable of producing a razor edge by itself, with some practice. Sorry this was so long.
 
I use a buchers steel. I don't let my edge become to dull and resharp it on time!!
The steel only polish and has no lines.
My knives are razorsharp as you can check them by going over it with your tumbnail.
If you have done a good job, you wont feel a thing, just smooth!!
If you like to find out more about sharpening, go Knivelinks, all sorts off and scroll to Sharpening.
Good luck and let me know.
 
I am thinking about getting a Sharpmaker. Is there a good place online where I can learn to sharpen properly before I ruin my knives?

Thanks
 
Bandit, the most important place to learn about sharpening is in your own home. Practice makes perfect.

The Sharpmaker is a good tool, but you still need to understand what you are doing with each stroke on an abrasive material. Read the sharpening FAQ here at BFC. Try sharpening free hand on course stones, study the effect on the edges, get a 10X pocket microscope, practice, practice, practice!

Diamond stones are great for reprofiling, but coarse and fine ceramics are really nice for routine edge maintenance. Stropping on scrap leather or an old belt may help.

Take an old and very dull knife that you don't care about so much. A kitchen knife may be perfect. Using at least three grades of stones, learn to reprofile, hone, and refine that edge until it shaves hair from your arm with no grabbing. Then move on to another knife.

Eventually, you will know how to see how much work needs to be done before you start, which stones or devices to use, and will be able to consistantly put a good working edge on almost any knife. There is no substitute for experience. Now get to work :)

Para
 
Used to use the Lansky before I knew better.
It has many good points, but more bad points.
The biggest problem is that it's virtually impossible to perfectly center the blade in the clamp. You will get a razor sharp edge, but it's not all that reproducible the next time you want to touch up the edge. For example, if you want a 40 deg edge, the way you clamp it in might mean that you are getting 24 deg on one side, and 16 deg on the other. The next time you clamp that same blade in, you might get it different. This causes you to remove excessive metal in the long run. Additionally, for thick blades, the aluminum clamp just isn't strong enough to hold onto them securely. I bent my clamps trying to tighten the screws down enough. All in all, it's a good idea, but clumsily executed. The Edge Pro systems, although much more expensive, use the same concept, but don't rely on a clumsy clamp. I use this exclusively to reprofile edges, or sharpen extremely dull knives (don't have any of those any more) and the Sharpmaker to keep those blades extremely sharp. The secret is, as I'm sure you've heard, touch up often, then you'll almost never have to use anything but the Sharpmaker.
Lenny
 
There is tremendously rich content on this topic that can be found using the Search engine.

Try combinations of these words in search:
Lansky
Sharpmaker
204
203
DMT
Gatco
EdgePro
slack belt
bench grinder
wheel
felt
rouge

IMHO, the ideal sharpening method varies quite a bit depending on what kind/size of knife and on what your goal for the edge is. (<--Yes, I too can end a sentence with a preposition right along with the best of them.)

I've read a number of threads on this subject over the past couple years. I have found that, in general, those who have tried only one or two methods will advocate the system that they are the most familiar with utilizing and do so strongly. Those that have tried a bunch of methods will see more shades of gray ... they will see pros & cons with every method in advocating their favorites.

"In seeking your advisor, you have chosen your advice." -- Jean Paul Satre
Click to expand...

I use all of these for various tasks:
Lansky (for folders, incl recurves. Gatco & DMT have pros/cons vs. Lansky)
Sharpmaker (for serrations, quick touchups, recurves, scissors)
Bench Grinder (anything 5" or longer, incl 22" machetes)
Soft backing w/ sandpaper (convex edges)
Chef's Choice 120 (kitchen knives, fast, shaving sharp but not terribly refined, good enough for the kitchen IMO. Veggies & meat aren't that challenging for an edge.)
Knife Steel (in the kitchen, to straighten edges after chopping on board)
Leather strops (removing burrs, polishing edges for shaving/push cutting optimization, final passes after Lansky or Sharpmaker, etc)

I can't use a flat bench stone nearly as effectively as any of the above, mostly because I haven't tried again since my early frustrating attempts to learn sharpening. Once you go bench grinder (or belt sander), no looking back to flat stones, for me anyway at this stage. (small hand held stones are useful for field sharpening). Of course, those who've mastered flat bench stones prefer those, and will disagree. In fact, someday, if I decide to work with bench stones, I may change my tune also. But a motorized contraption is such an time & effort saver and can, in the hands of the pro's, yield amazing results (Chris Reeve, Scott Cook, RJ Martin, Hossum, Lightfoot, Mayo, plenty of others)

Someday I'll do most all of my sharpening on the bench grinder and/or slack belt sander like most makers do, as you can get things done quickly and with varying amounts of toothiness or polish, and you can roll a convex final bevel onto an edge, which seems to be the ultimate IMHO. I keep practicing on holding the angles and on putting convex final bevel on the edge. I'm starting to have enough confidence to do the expensive folders on the bench grinder (with hard fiberboard wheels, NOT with ordinary bench grinder abrasive stones! A hard wool felt wheel is in my future).

I'll take the other side: diamond stones are great, especially on anything at the ATS-34/154CM level of steel or higher on alloy/carbide chart (BG-42, CPM-anything, M2, D2). You must have a variety from X-coarse to coarse to medium to fine.

You can indeed remove a lot of metal fast with the x-coarse diamond especially, and with coarse also... that is indeed the idea. Coarse is a big time/labor/effort saver, but requires some know-how. Just like 60 grit sandpaper removes wood fast and can product deep scratches, so too w/ coarse diamond. But they can save time and effort if you know what you are doing. If you are learning, do so w/ medium stones until you know what you are doing, work on the cheaper knives and progress up the $$ scale.

Beginners: probably best served to read Juranitch's book http://www.razoredgesystems.com/ to learn about the all-important burr, and then use a jig (Lansky, Gatco, DMT) or the Sharpmaker.
 
Rdangerer, said it all. Good post. Only thing I have to add is. A sanding disk and a ajustable speed drill works as well as a grinder or belt sander. Silica carbid sand paper, and for a convex edge glue on a piece of leather or cork board first. that is my cheapo belt grinder. :) Also I don't have a problem useing the Lansky even with 6 inch blades. a 3 degree difference on a 6 incher come on. you ever use one? maybe it might be a .003 diff not enough to tell however. Just like all systems look learn and use it.
 
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