Sharpening users.

J

jacknife

Joined
Jan 3, 2001
Messages
868
All my knives I would say come under the title users. None are very expensive.
Sak's, Opinels, a few by Case. Nothing special, just good honest users, that's what I like.
But that doesn't seem to stop me wanting to pamper my favourites. I have a growing stock of knives that I use rather than store in the safe, I think that's because as I get older I wonder why I don't use them and get some enjoyment out of them, as who knows what will happen to them after I'm gone. Sure...I hope my grand-kids will want them, but you can't be sure.
I'd still like to keep a few in nice condition to pass on down.

Now whenever I take one of these users to the stone for a sharpening I can't seem to do it without leaving some marks on the blade edge and sometimes I make a complete hash of it and get scratches on the main part of the blade :eek: This doesn't look to nice to my eye. I've tried putting tape on the sides of the blade and this has helped to stop some of the scratches but the edge still looks a bit ugly and uneven afterwards.

Now tell me this....are your users all scratched up from sharpening?
Does it bother you if they are?
Do I have to buy one of these fancy sharpening rigs to avoid the scratches?
Is there some other way to get a nice pretty edge and not mar the blade with an ordinary bench stone?
 
jacknife said:
Now tell me this....are your users all scratched up from sharpening?
Does it bother you if they are?
Do I have to buy one of these fancy sharpening rigs to avoid the scratches?
Is there some other way to get a nice pretty edge and not mar the blade with an ordinary bench stone?
Click to expand...


No.
No.
No, definatly not!
Yes.

Not being there to watch you I can't tell what you're doing, so I'll just try to give you a blow by blow of what to do.

First, for most pocket knives, an ordinary bench stone is fine, if a little big. The worst thing you can do is get one of the gizmos and get used to it. My only sharpening stone I use on a regular basis is a very small pocket diamond hone made by Eze-lap and it has most of the red plastic handle cut off so it fits in the little zipper compartment of my wallet. It's the model LF I believe. I cut off the handle leaving only an inch of the red plastic to hold onto. Its enough, and the small 3 inch overall lengh lets you keep it in your wallet, thus having a means to touch up your knife anyplace.

I hold the hone in my left hand with thumb and middle finger at the back and my index finger under the mid point. Or you can just hold it in thumb and index finger-whatever suits your hand size.

Take the open knife blade and lay it flat on the stone, then raise the back a bit. This is the important part, because it governs what kind of angle you get. On my sak's I try to just duplicate the factory angle Victorinox puts on. Now starting at the base of the blade, start honing in small circles overlapping each other and moving very slowly toward the tip. On a sak size blade it should take about a minute to reach the tip. Then turn the knife over and repeat on the other side. Always heel to tip. This circle method will keep the blade in constant cantact with the surface of the hone, making it a bit easier to keep the same angle while working the blade edge. Doing this will put a very good using edge on the knife that will slice newsprint. You can finish with a leather strop, but its not really nessesary. I don't bother stropping alot anymore and I have not noticed any effect in actual real world use.

If you get scratches on the sides of the blade your holding it a bit too flat. Take a magic marker and mark just the actual edge of the blade and then check to see if you have the right angle. If you do, just the marker on the edge will be polished off. With the edge blacked, you will be able to see if you are going to steep or shallow.

Most people get messed up on sharpening because they are trying too hard, and making it more difficult that it has to be. Relax, don't tense up, its not rocket science. It just takes practice. Use a small pocket size hone, go out and relax in the backyard, and slowly make your overlapping circles up the blade. After a while it gets to be a zen thing, and it all comes together and becomes automatic.

And the thing about no gizmos or big stones is that you can touch up your knife anywhere in just two minutes, a minute per side. Small is good.
 
jackknife just described exactly my method of sharpening. sometimes I use my norton 1000/8000 waterstones and sometimes I just use my medium pocket DMT hone. it's all good. After i stopped stressing about my technique, I got it down pat.

Nicely put JK.

brett
 
Thats what they call the easy way to convex! It's part of what I do to rebevel, but not everyday sharpen. My technique: with a DMT 120 grit, semi circles till I get a burr tip to bottom, then I go to a 800/4000 waterstome and do the same both grits, so its nice and smokey looking on the back bevel and edge. Then I get out the sandpaper, 320/600/1000/1500 and convex it to a nice polished edge, then strop. Once its there, I pretty much only need the strop. But the old style works!:thumbup:
 
You know, sometimes you just have to put things in perspective, so's not to take oneself to seriously.

I remember when I was a little kid back in the late 40's and living in these garden apartments on the outskirts of Washington D.C.. I'd be playing with the other kids in the alley out back, and we could allways tell when it was getting close to dinner time. Alot of the mothers would come out to the back steps and sharpen their old kitchen butcher knives on the stone steps.

Alot of meat and other food was sliced and diced by those old beat up butcher knives. :D
 
jackknife wrote :
I hold the hone in my left hand with thumb and middle finger at the back and my index finger under the mid point. Or you can just hold it in thumb and index finger-whatever suits your hand size.
Click to expand...

I use a Norton India stone; course/fine; 3 x 1 1/2 x 1/2 in [ 76 x 38 x9 mm] - in the same fashion.

My EDCs are primarily Case Chrome Vanadium, Yellow Handled, Barehead Slimline Trappers or Peanuts, though I sometimes EDC Mini Trappers or Stockman's.

Secondary EDCs are Vic Classic SDs, Pocket Pals or Bantams.

Norton and Carbon Steel is what I grew up.
I used USA, and German carbon steel hand tools and these were sharpened by hand using a Norton India IB6 or IB8.

Free hand sharpening was a must, as angles had to be a certain way, and no "jig" could get an angle, shape or anything else.

Knives, sharpening, I learned to use a Loupe, or Optivisor and go s-l-o-w.

Remove what is touching, leave alone that which does not need removing - Mentor.

Norton fine stones, were used a lot, just sometimes getting the initial "angle" required coarse.
Dry hone, and for the carbon tools I used Gen Chamois, or Cardboard with Simichrome. [which will remove scratches on carbon steels).

While cutting metals, I/we used Oil of Wintergreen.

Now we had Diamond and Ruby stones, and there was some uses, just for me, being able to take a Norton and do what needed doing as Mentors did, was a huge plus.

Too many times over too many years I have been outdoors and been able to keep a Trapper, sharp, like 2 wks out in Canada, canoeing and portaging.
Or 10 days out on a Survival deal and having only a Pocket knife and small Norton stone.

My other deal is using emery paper, as when I was Apprenticing was taught to do, to keep these carbon steel tools sharp and touched up betweem using a Norton.

Emery on a pc of cardboard that fits in a wallet works, and now these Padded Emery Boards with two grits work in the same fashion.

I've shown more than one person, especially ladies, how to touch up a SAK for the Workplace with a Padded Emery Board and Cardboard (plain, not loaded, no real need to).


Kids Tip :
Get the "good" plastic knives and one of these small Norton stones.
Knock off the serrations and then use a marker on the edge.
The kids can "get the feel" and see what they are doing.

Get them a inexpensive 10x loupe and pass forward to them these time honored free hand skills.
 
Thanks for the description of your methods Jackknife and sm2.

I think you're right, I'm probably too tense.

I might be trying for too fine an angle too.

I've got some kitchen knives that need a sharpening so I'll get some practise with them.

Thanks chaps :thumbup:
 
It is I that thanks you.

Never learn on a crutch - Mentor

I need not forget How raised - what you do either . *smile*
 
Running the blade off the end of the stone will scratch it good.
And it only takes one time.

Collecting sharpening stuff is almost as much fun as collecting knives.
sharpening.jpg
 
For basic sharpening (not changing the bevel angle) I often prefer keeping the knife still and using the stone like a file.
Greg
 
I sometimes scratch mine when sharpening, and it does bother me, but I'v found that I usually do it when I'm not relaxed, or I'm preoccupied with something else, or just trying too hard. In general, if I'm not enjoying it I stop until my frame of mind is a little better. Fine emery cloth, and scotch brite go a long way toward removing, or at least hiding scratches.
 
Doesn't bother me when a knife gets a scratch on it. I'm using it, it's going to get a couple of scratches. I don't carry super expensive knives, I carry tools. Scratches, even from sharpening, are signs of use and do not bother me at all. The few bits of "art in steel" that I own mostly stay in the safe.

I usually carry around a little chunk of a medium fine Arkansas stone. It's about two inches long and half an inch wide. Can't tell you how many times I've touched up a knife with that. Also use a fine ceramic pocket stone. Even in the kitchen, where I keep my "big" stone, a four by three inch carborundum two sided stone, that little Arkansas or ceramic stone finishes up the job. I have a diamond home for certain things. I have a belt grinder for certain things.

I have never used a jig to sharpen a knife. When I was a kid, my dad gave me an small Imperial jackknife and a 3 inch Arkansas stone and said, "By the time they're both wore out, you'll know what you're doing." He was right. He carries a pocket diamond hone mostly now, but I don't because I don't like the finish they leave on an edge. I use them, but it's more limited use than a touch up. More for establishing or re-establishing an edge. When an edge is maintained the way I like, I hardly ever need to use anything coarse or fast-cutting.
 
Scratches and dings come with use. Versus shelf queens with pristine blades. If they really bother you, some 600 grit emery paper (usually carried by Pep Boys) will take them right out.
 
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