Some lights out, no breakers tripped (knife content)

fracmeister

fracmeister

Petroleum Engineer
Joined
May 26, 1999
Messages
1,686
OK, some of the many lights in my kitchen and dining room are out. 5 cans over the stove, two chandeliers. No breakers have tripped. All GFIs have been tested. WEIRD part. Every switch that accesses one of these lights also accesses other lights that actually are working. That's right, flip left or center switch and lights go on and off, nothing for right switch. Go over to another double switch and one works and the others do not.

Surely someone out there knows what is going on and can provide the quick and easy solution.

KNIFE content.

I'll give a used SPYDERCO Clip-it to the person who tells me the problem in a way I can solve it without spending any money. Or I'll give it to one of my Boy Scouts if you don;t need a Spydie.
 
Somethings to look for:
1) it could be a burnt out\broken switch
2) you may have had a loose connection (at switch or loose cap joining wires)

Don't forget the check those decorative covers, that is where cables are spliced together.
 
Chances are, you're looking at a loose wire in the switch box, or possibly bad switches. I replaced a few switches in my house recently and noticed that the new ones (purchased at wal-mart) have an iffy on setting, they'll go on sometimes, but sometimes you have to wiggle the switch on and off a bit to make it stay "hot".

How old is the wiring in your house? The older wiring becomes brittle and will snap at the bends occasionally, these bends are usually around the screw terminals at the back of the switch where the wiring is connected. Since the other switches work and they are all together in the same enclosure, the wiring is usually the source. One set of wires comes from the breaker box to the "gang" box where the switches are, it ties into the first switch, then jumps from it to the second switch, then jumps from the second to the third.

If you only have one switch for each light, the wires going to the switches will be something like white black coming in from the breaker, the black going to the top post of the switch, the white wirenutted and taped to another wire going to the first light, second light, third light etc. The black on the switch will usually be under a post on the switch with another black wire going to the next switch under the same post ( or possibly wirenutted behind the switches with the blacks all tied together and splitting out to the switches) The other post (bottom post) of the switch will be the black wire that corresponds to the white wire (wirenutted to the main) going out to the respective lights.

Remove power to the breaker(s) that power the lights, whip out a flashlight and a screwdriver, remove the cover plate from the switches, unscrew the switches and gently pull them all out of the gang box. Check the wires on the posts, ensure that none are loose, then check the wire nuts to make sure none of the neutral wires (white/red) have come loose from the wire nuts. This is easy to check, grab the wire nut with one hand, and pull on each wire individually with the other, don't tug hard on the wires, if they're loose, they'll come out easily.

If you find a loose wire, chances are that's your problem. If you have a volt meter handy, you can unscrew a lightbulb and check with the probes to see if there is voltage first in the light socket, then at the switches, then from the breaker itself (which should have power if the other lights are working).

Hope this helps.

SunRunner
 
My guess is two wires for the lights are twisted together and attached to one side of the switch, and there's a loose connection at the switch.
 
Sounds like that entire circuit is bad. Good luck not spending money to fix it :). Something is messed up. That kind of thing doesn't happen without a short or a wire cut or something.

:)
 
If you're going to have to tell us a bit more about the situation, maybe draw a picture showing the switches and which lights they control.

Chances are that it's a broken switch. The switch is broken internally. It will look normal. It may "feel" different when you flip it but a lot of switches these days are designed for the "soft" feel and "quiet" operation, so you may not feel a difference.

These switches sell for like $2 or $3 each and it takes about five minutes to replace one. One option to fix the problem is to just spend $10 and an hour shotgun replacing 'em all.
 
My best guess is that the lights that are out are connected to one hot leg, the lights that are on are connected to the other, and you have a circuit breaker with one bad pole. The first thing I would do is repace the breaker serving these lights.
 
1. Call an electrician. ;)

2. Sounds like a bad switch, bad outlet, bad splice, or old wires. If it is one of those things the electrician will pull your outlets/switches out and check the wires over with a voltage pen (tells if current is running through the wires). If it is nothing crazy they can usually figure it out from there. Now if you had one of these pens already you could check the wires yourself and narrow it down a bit, maybe even fix it (self diagnostic?). Just be carefull, always have a buddy with you when you do electrical work so if you start getting zapped he can kick you away.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I am hitting the sack and working on it manana. I have had some generous offers of assistance and good ideas which I really appreciate. Back soon with the results!
 
Well, the lights are back on. And while a lot of you gave me some good advice it was clearly "slice&dice" who nailed it on the head (vibrations -- most likely my sons drumming -- he moved his drum set) shaking some things loose. Turns out it wasn;t exactly even what "slice&dice" first expected -- but it was out internal to the breakers (his second choice).

So the slightly used Spydie goes to Bob in Philly!

BTW, slice&dice is a professional electrician, gave me his home number by pm and walked me through it! This is a fine forum, eh?
 
That was very generous of him, but he probably would have been liable if you had gotten electrocuted. If you don't know about electricity, you are not going to know what you are doing unless someone is there to help you out. Cough up the money to have the electrician come by, so you don't turn your kids into orphans!
 
If I had to guess I bet it is a lose white/black wire attached to your breaker box. I bet that an entire circuit blew, but the breaker has nothing to do with it and you just happen to have blown the one circuit that has switches with another circuit. Sounds kinda’ far fetched, but it is my shot at it.

-Duffin
 
For all of the folks that said call an electrician, because you'll get electrocuted:
I worked as an electrician, and we charged $50 just to come to your house.
Aslo, if you turn the breaker off, there is no electricity going to the switch, and you will not get electrocuted. I don't know of anyone that got killed with 110, either. Now 220, you can really hurt yourself.
 
You can get into the wiring inside the can. Here's how.

Turn off the breaker for safety of course.

Remove the bulb and trim pieces.

There are three nuts near the ceiling line that hold the can in the fixture. At least it's three in my particular light cans. Remove those nuts. The can is now loose and can be moved aside in the ceiling space. Now there is a panel that provides access to the wiring connections for that light can. You can tweak the connections as needed to restore function.

Reverse the process and see how your fix was.

I had to have an electrician show me that once so now I share that knowledge with all of you.

Phil
 
220 won't kill you unless you have direct skin contact to floor/earth. I know, cause been there. I was several times hit when installing monitors on a show, suspecting the RGB video cable having grounding problem. Turned out someone has tighten too much the lighting cable that it cut into the wire and expose the copper to the aluminium frame of the booth partition :mad: . So, whenever I touched that RGB grounding and my arm was in contact with the frame, I got electrocuted.

Survived, but without the trauma for a while (still can feel the tremors now)
 
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