spyderco 440v

beefangusbeef

beefangusbeef

Joined
Dec 2, 2005
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I have a question regarding the lil temperance in 440v. Is the blade hardened so to retain it's edge, or softer like most 440v to help reduce chipping? I love my S30v, but as of late can only readily find the 440v ones available. Thanks.
 
As far as I know my Lil'Temperance has CPM 440 V and this another name for S-60V. The newer ones uses S-30V for blades. Both steels are powder-metallurgic.
 
About a year ago I got a "rhino horn" ( trailing point) Lil Temperance with 440V blade steel. What was unusual about it was that it was the first Spyderco knife that I ever got that was not "shaving sharp". So I got out the sharpening equipment I normally use to get an edge back to being acceptable. I THOUGHT I WAS BEING PUNISHED :eek:

I spent pretty close to an hour getting that knife back to what I consider a razor sharp edge. Now keep in mind that I have sharpened several different commercial blade steels. But this was the very first time that I had to do extensive work with 440V. RE-PROFILING that stuff was nothing but pure punishment. It was about the most difficult blade steel I ever had to re-sharpen. It had abrasion resistance that I had only encountered out of 2 other blade steels that I had re-sharpened. Those being D-2 & M-2.

440V to me is some of the very worst blade steel to sharpen>> if you don't believe me than try it for yourself
 
JD

Ahh one of the great metal discussions. :)

But ok - help me here ( as I am a novice concerning the metal side of things) - So because 440V is hard to sharpen - does that mean it retains the edge better as well? Harder to sharpen = longer to stay sharp?

I have several 440Vs [different models - including a Lil T] and have had no problem keeping them sharp. Now 1) I am not ripping through cement with them and 2) I tend to stay on top of their sharpness. This might make the difference as JD was re-profiling and I am just doing maintenance. Would diamond sticks have helped with this re-profiling?

After getting my Sharpmaker - like many - I ran around the house sharpening up all sorts of things. Some of my kitchen knives were really pathetic (ok butter knives do not HAVE to be sharp....) and it took a long time to get them sharp - so now I try to keep up with things and have found that regardless of the metal - and some of my kitchen knives have really terrable metal...- basic matenance is the key. :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm not too worried about sharpening I just know that a lot of knifemakers ran 440v in lower RC 55-57 IIRC and then it basically lost its edge holding over other steels like 440c, so then you have a hard to sharpen steel with no extra edge holding. I was just wondering if anyone knows what RC the spyderco 440v is? Thanks.
 
I think the Rc is about 58 - 60. I have a couple spydies in 440V and I can confirm that this is a tough steel. Never had any problems in getting a shaving sharp edge, though (using a 204 Sharpmaker).
 
beefangusbeef said:
... I was just wondering if anyone knows what RC the spyderco 440v is?...
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I looked in my "records" and according different Spyderco catalogues CPM440V has had Rc 56-61 (Military, Starmate) and this depends on the year :jerkit:

Isn't that a little bit cureous? Do your think that's right?
 
IIRC, the 440V that Spyderco used was originally pretty hard (RC in the upper 50s). They then decided to make the blades a bit softer to avoid chipping, so the RC value was lowered to the mid 50s. I think that was done across the board on all the models that used 440V.

(Here and here are a couple of ancient threads about it. As a side note, it’s interesting that Sal mentions ZDP-189 in the first thread, which is from way back in ‘99! :) )

The Lil' Temperance didn’t go into production until well after the change in 440V’s hardness was made, so I would guess that its blade used the softer steel, though I don’t know for sure.
 
Hmmm, ok guess I'll just keep looking for an S30v one then. I would rather have a high RC and be a little more careful then a lower one. Thanks for the help!
 
TurnerIII said:
JD

Ahh one of the great metal discussions. :)

But ok - help me here ( as I am a novice concerning the metal side of things) - So because 440V is hard to sharpen - does that mean it retains the edge better as well? Harder to sharpen = longer to stay sharp?

I have several 440Vs [different models - including a Lil T] and have had no problem keeping them sharp. Now 1) I am not ripping through cement with them and 2) I tend to stay on top of their sharpness. This might make the difference as JD was re-profiling and I am just doing maintenance. Would diamond sticks have helped with this re-profiling? :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Yes I was having to do a total "Reprofiling" on the 440V blade. But it was not a major overhaul as some I have done to fixed blades here of late. And yes I was using a commercial grade 325 Grit NORTON benchstone ( one of the very best available). The ironic thing about it is that 440V is great steel but not as good as it's brother S30V or it's other brother 154-CM.

440V is a bitch of a blade steel to resharpen. I do however think that it woudl have been a good steel to use on a fixed blade. I did get some good news yesterday. I called and talked to a sales rep from Crucible ( the company that makes the steel) and they told me that they no longer make 440V ( S-60-V). Needless to say I was elated. But the hidden message in that might be that 440V Spyderco blades might be getting just a bit collectible. Hmmm? maybe I ought to start a thread on that?
 
Our 440V blades were run at a lower Rc to avoid chipping experienced in the higher Rc's. The lower hardness didn't seem to afffect edge retention, at least on the CATRA tests. It's actually a very good blade steel even though it wasn't developed for blades.

We switched to S30V as it tested better overall. When the next "better" steel comes along, we'll probably switch again. We feel we owe it to our customer to provide the best steel available for overall performance. Real performance and not "word hype".

We switched to the VG-10 over the ATS breeds because in our testing for the 3 majors (edge retension, toughness and corrosion resistance), it tested better.

I'm a bit of a steel snob, but I'm also a bit of a steel whore in the sense that I will gravitate towards better performing steels regardless of the mfr.

Crucible has been great in their willingness to continue to develop superior blade steels.

I like working with Hitachi and felt bad when we switched to VG-10. However, now we're testing ZDP (Hitachi steel) and results are "so far so good".

Crucible also has several "new" blade steels we'll be offering in select models.

We're also doing a run in BG which I also like.

In the end, it's what the most "expert" knife people believe is the best overall and the results of "real world ELU testing" that will guide us.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
I'm a bit of a steel snob, but I'm also a bit of a steel whore
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Mr. Glesser, you are preaching to the choir! :D Your statement pretty much sums up my knife collecting philosophy.
 
That's what ultimately gravitated me towards the great Spyder Factory. I will say however that I tend to like the CRUCIBLE steels i.e. S-30V, 154-CM Ect.

But I also in a mode to where I want to be on the side that is winning. I have not found any blade steel that holds a candle to ZDP-189. I would love it if every one of my knives had that blade steel. It was the Great Spyder Factory factory that made it available to me and for that I am eternally grateful.

I did get some good news however>> A guy who works for Crucible told me that they quit making 440V ( S60V) :)
 
440V or S60V has 5.5% Vanadium. S30V has 3% Vanadium. Vanadium Carbides are about RC 84. I made quite a few 440V blades. It is very wear resistant. Grinding in the annealed state it consumed 5-6 times the ceramic abrasives that annealed ATS-34 needed. I believe their is some S125V blades in the works. The carbides in this CPM steel are so large that you can only finish to about 300-400 grit. You will dislodge carbides from the surface when polishing and they are harder than the abrasive; and the cut a deep scratch on the surface about 250-350 grit size...Take Care...Ed
 
Thanks everyone for the replies, I might just have to buy a few spydercos in it just to see how it works, especially if it is discontinued!
 
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