Spyderco needs to add pivot bushings

DaveH

DaveH

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
12,249
Some of you will recognize I sound very much like a broken record, but I think for the high end knives Spyderco makes they really need pivot bushings ala the sebenza. It completly removes the issue of blade play, closing/opening smoothness from being tied to careful management of the pivot tightness.

Let me clarify that FRN models don't need them due to their price catagory, Neither do the stainless models because the pivot is not accessable or adjustable anyway.

Particularly I think the high end G10 and Ti handled models need them.

Cons
-----

Increased cost. (It doesn't seem like this is an issue, my understanding is that Buck 110's have a pivot bushing.)

Those people that like to make a knife flip open like Balis won't like it.

Pros
----

Decreased blade play.

Decrease in lock failures due to loose pivot.

User confidence that their knife won't go out of adjustment should they take it apart.

Decreased returns to warranty because people no longer had a need to try and adjust and take apart their knife.

Increase in user safety ( ie: can't make it flip open like a Balis)

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They have no bushings? I thought that was standard. Bushings are very inexpensive and much needed... :confused:
 
The pivots in the SpyderFly work as pivot bushings. Very nice design, works great, but not quite exactly like the bushing of a Sebenza.

I agree, it would be a great idea for them to add to their higher end models. Do any manufacturers regularly use them other than CRK? I wonder why it has not caught on.
 
DaveH said:
Pros
----

Decreased blade play.

Decrease in lock failures due to loose pivot.

User confidence that their knife won't go out of adjustment should they take it apart.

Decreased returns to warranty because people no longer had a need to try and adjust and take apart their knife.

Increase in user safety ( ie: can't make it flip open like a Balis)

-------------
Click to expand...

-None of my Spydies have excessive to any blade play.
-Never had a Sydie lockup fail during use.
-I have no need to take my Spydies apart, I can clean them just fine as is.
-Only time I returned a Spydie was for regrind of a broken tip (my fault).
-Safety is objective, if they make an idiot proof knife a better idiot will soon come along.
 
MrMojoRising said:
-None of my Spydies have excessive to any blade play.
Click to expand...

The Golden-made Natives have horribly sloppy pivots.

(edit: I was going to do a second post for the rest, but why?)

Also, I too would like to see this on at least some models, though not all need it. I'm not sure what the problem is with those Natives, but maybe a bushing setup would help ensure a more deliberate assembly.

Buck uses it for most of their bolstered lockbacks. This isn't really any different than a steel handle Spyderco, so I don't see why it would help a 110 but not a Delica II. It's still a solid metal bolster with a pin pressed into it. But as far as blade play goes, my Scorpius either already has it or doesn't need it, because it's pretty darn good already.

Does a bushing help prevent wear on the pivot? My oldest steel model, a Delica, does have a small amount of blade play. But it's just one knife, so I don't know if that's from wear or just the way it was. I would think a bushing could be made of the ideal durable metal, while a pressed pin has to have "squishable" properties before anything else. I guess with a large bushing you would also get less pressure on any single point.

The FRN Delicas will have screw pivots, so that might provide most of the benefits anyway.
 
MrMojoRising said:
-None of my Spydies have excessive to any blade play.
-Never had a Sydie lockup fail during use.
-I have no need to take my Spydies apart, I can clean them just fine as is.
Click to expand...

Same here, that being said, if Spyderco was going to do Reeve style piviots it would be welcomed, I would not pay much extra for it though as it doesn't add to the functionality of the knife. Some of my knives do have some play, including the small Sebenza and it isn't anything but a cosmetic issue. I would rather more R&D put into more secure locks and exploring steels and heat treatments.

-Cliff
 
Wow. I actually agree with Cliff on something. Go figure. :D

I have repaired a few Buck knives with that bushing and the idea is sound but the tolerances have to be up to snuff to make it right.

On one just recently I replaced the pivot pin with a higher quality better fitting knifekits adjustable pivot with a torx screw on each end and took out the blade play that the knife came with from the factory by 99.9%. It was that much better no joke. Just ask the guy that got his knife back after Buck told him it was 'within acceptable parameters' when he inquired about the blade play.

STR
 
STR said:
Just ask the guy that got his knife back after Buck told him it was 'within acceptable parameters' when he inquired about the blade play.

STR
Click to expand...

What model? My Buck 110 isn't perfect, but after playing around with it I think the imperfection lies within the specific design of their lock fitting, not the pivot/bushing refinement. I could be wrong, because that spring is really tough to hold down while I play with the blade.

I would place lock security above eliminating wiggle too, but I don't think it's unreasonale to also expect improvement to the cosmetic aspect. Of course, I don't know why I am doing all of this speculating when it would be easier to just tell Spyderco "whatever the heck you did with the Scorpius to make it work right, do it to everything else too."
 
All of Spyderco models work fine without bushings, so I don't see the need.

None of mine suffer from blade-play or lock failure.
Maybe I'm just lucky?

Allen.
 
allenC said:
All of Spyderco models work fine without bushings, so I don't see the need.

None of mine suffer from blade-play or lock failure.
Maybe I'm just lucky?

Allen.
Click to expand...

I have yet to own a SS modeled Spyderco that did not have blade play in it. Maybe I'm just unlucky. My SS Delica had quite a lot of side to side play in it and it has gotten to a point where I just won't use it anymore. Oh, and I bought it with in the last year so it's not because it's seen a lot of use. I'd be for bushings on the SS models but I'm also very much for adjustable screw construction on the SS models as well.
 
With the SS models that can't be adjusted by tightening a screw, you can just tap the sides with a hammer to firm up the pivot.

-Cliff
 
I've always used the thin razor on one side of the blade stuck down in as deep as I could get it on the FRN models with pivot pins. Then set the knife on a small anvil and tap the pivot pin head with a hammer using a slightly oversized punch just a tad bigger than the pivot head and it will tighten up good but not be so tight that it interferes with how easy the blade works. (0nce you pull out the razor blade from between the handle and the blade where it was wedged before tapping the pivot.) The thickness of the old style Gillette razor blades seems to be about right to me.

On the Buck. It was a Buck 560 I did the repair on recently. The Pivot was a 1/8" and it moved around oblong in the hole in the bushing. In fact you could shove the pin that was the pivot from the factory in and out with your bare thumb. My experience with them is that it should not be that easy to move the pivot in and out of the bushing with your bare hand. In most other makes I've worked on it required a punch to tap them out of the bushing.

The replacement 1/8" diameter adjustable pin I put in the bushing from Knifekits required a few taps to seat it and you couldn't just pull it out or flop it loose. It spun free and was very close tolerances like it should be.

The knife was like rock solid now and the lock bar no longer lifted up like it did before because of the excess blade travel in the pivot. It was obvious what the problem was when it was corrected.

Here is the knife. This was an awesome knife with a custom blade from the Buck shop. That is where the problem started when the original blade was replaced with a BG42 blade from Buck. The owner of this knife, Chris, said that the original blade did not have play in it like the new one did. It was a shame really because this blade was flawless other than the wrong size pin for a pivot. This was a great knife but it is a one hand opener and equipped with a custom pocket clip now that I made for it while I had it in my shop.

I'd buy this model from Buck in a heartbeat if one ever shows up on one of the forums and fix mine up the same way. Other than someone dropping the ball in the Buck Custom shop this one is a great offering from Buck.

You can see it in the link here under post number 2. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366690
 
Note that I exempted SS and FRN knives.

Obviously it shouldn't be don't if there isn't a perceived need, but in my experience 100% of the compression lock knives I had, Salsa (3), ATR(1), Lil' Temperance (1) developed blade play quickly and could not be adjusted out by the factory.

Clearly my experience forms my opinion, and just as clearly I could have gotten a bad batch of knives, sure a knife with a bushing can still have play, but it doesn't seem cosmetic to me as a significant amount of time is used fussing with pivot tension, when there's a solution.
 
I don't spend any time fooling with it, it isn't like a small amount of play influences the performance of the knife to cut, considering the amount of play your hands induce, the piviot is insignificant. That being said, I would be curious how it would be responded to at large, maybe do a poll in the main forum and see how much people would be willing to pay to have a bushing added to something like the Paramilitary.

-Cliff
 
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