Spydercos without liners

4

4GD

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
47
What do you guys think about Spydercos without a metal liner on the opposite side of the lock. I have used a wenger for a while now, but always wonder about its longevity/wear resistance. I recently bought a Starmate and have the same reservations about the linerless G-10 scale. any have any inputs on this subject?

Ted

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Cry "Havoc" and let slip the dogs of war. Wm Shakespeare
 
How would a knife with a single liner wear out any faster than a knife with two liners? Same goes with longevity.

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Johnny
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If you look at the knife, the blade rides on the scale material, no washers. Also the scale has no support from a metal liner or a metal bolster.

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Cry "Havoc" and let slip the dogs of war. Wm Shakespeare
 
I have several of these and have had no trouble so far. They all prove to be great workers. Only the years to come will prove it but in my opinion the years will prove these to be a great line of knives.
 
I don't think you have to worry about the strength of the linerless designs. The G-10 or micarta by itself is very strong. These knives will only break if you try to break them. The only problem is that sometimes the clips can strip out of the scale. Spyderco has fixed this on some knives like the Smith and Police by having one liner on the side with the clip. On the Military, Starmate etc., the clip goes into a washer to keep it from stripping.
 
4GD - At Spyderco, we believe that testing and knowledge far out weigh untested opinion.

Please try to keep the following facts in mind:

A steel liner the same thickeness as a titanium liner is TWICE as strong as the titanium liner.

The Starmate and Military have full nested liners on the clip side. the clip and back spacer screws into the liner. The liner is nested for strength and to create a thinner carrying package.

A nested liner uses the form and the fit for ridigity. A non nested liner must rely on the pins and screws for rigidity.

The blade rides on .002 washers.

Sticking in liners without the millwork of nesting is considerably cheaper to produce. Ask your favorite custom maker how much more they would charge to nest a full liner rather than just slap in an extra piece of metal that is not nested.

The only value of an extra liner is extra weight and extra thickness. Good only if that's what you are seeking.

At Spyderco, we do not equate weight with strength More like an airplane or a race car, we prefer to use technology & materials to gain strength.

True, time will tell in the long run.

Some info to add to your knife database.

sal
 
Hey Sal,

Thanks for the education, I learned something new today. I have been using Spyderco knives since 1986 and have FUBARed
only one so far, I sent it back and you guy's took care of me ASAP.

Thanks
Ted

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Cry "Havoc" and let slip the dogs of war. Wm Shakespeare
 
Dom - All Recongnition

Ted - thanx for the support. no fubar though. Just need to ask. "Have Knowledge Will Share".

sal

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"There seems to be an amazing connection between what people do, and what happens to them"




[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 28 November 1999).]
 
My AFCK has more flex than any of my nested liner Spyderco's. I really think the dual liner thing is kind of a false sense of security. I use my Spyderco Military and Wegner often and I use them hard. Never had any problem.

FUBAR- ****ed up beyond any recognition

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Dennis Bible
Knoxville, Tennessee


 
This may be slightly off topic, but I read an interview w/ Mr. Linerlock, Bob Walker, adn he said something to the effect that large (both in diameter and thickness) pivot washers are used in a liner lock mechanism in order to offset the fles and poor fit of a liner locking knife that's not made correctly (or at least how he envisioned/refined the idea)...

This seems to fit with the Starmate, as it has to be the best liner locking knife made...everything works, and works very well, with one liner, and tiny washers...the way a "proper" liner lock should.

--dan
 
Keep in mind that most non nested double liners require a washer on either side of the blade tang to provide a bearing surface. If they are too thick/ small diameter then the blade will tend to "rock" and this is what I believe is the cause for much of the blade / liner rub problems, most specially on the current BMs (sorry but that' s the truth). On nested or single liners (Military, Wegner series, G10 Harpys and Standards) there is at least more support due to the direct wider bearing surface for the blade to ride on. Makes sense?

L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 29 November 1999).]
 
Hi All!

I'm new here and sorry for my cheap English.
The STARMATE is great knife: outstanding edge retention, flawless action, very comfortable feet to hand, exceptional ratio between weight and strength. I like it very much.
My only doubt is the lack of opposite liner in the handle.
Yes, I agree with Sal, G-10 is very strong material, but like all plastics it may be sensitive to tension concentration in some circumstances. The tension concentration near small-radiused cutouts may cause the rise of micro cracks in G-10 in radius directions. The holes for pivot pin and spacer screws are these small-radiused points of tension concentration.

In my opinion knife strength would be improved very much if something like "partial liner" would be nested into front scale. This would add minimal extra weight only, to reduce weight liner could have cutout. The thing is that the stiff three-dimensional steel construction would be created with pivot pin, both liners and spacer screws. All critical points in this case would be armed with steel much less sensitive to tension concentration than plastics.
Here I tried to illustrate my idea with sketch:
*** Oh, sorry! I prepared nice sketch but I don't know how to attach it to this massage!
Could someone teach me please?

Sal, how do you like this idea?


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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
 
Thanks all!

I learned something new today, too!

'FUBAR!'

smile.gif


 
Nakano --

There is no question in my mind that the washers cause a lot of problems. If they are either too small in diameter, or too thick, you run into all kinds of problems when the blade is torqued a bit. For that reason, I like the washer to be thin and very wide -- as wide as can possibly fit in the pivot area. The best liner lock I've seen has huge, thin brass liners -- you can torque it forever and there's no give. In fact, you can release the lock so you're just torquing the blade itself, and there's *still* no play.

It bothers me how many makers use small, thick washer on at least one side. I know it makes the knife a bit smoother, but it's not worth the loss of reliability and precision.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Serg - Interesting viewpoint. We've played around with that in FRN (Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon) handles but not in G10.

The addition would probably increase strength & even rigidity. At this time we do not feel that it is necessary. The addition would certainly increase the price. Frankly, we're having a hard time making the knife (Starmate & Military) for the current price.

We are producing the Starmate folder at a lower price that the Terzuola Fixed Blade.

BTW - I really like the term "cheap English". My english is about as cheap as it gets. If you don't mind, I'll use your term.

sal

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"There seems to be an amazing connection between what people do... and what happens to them"


 
Sal,
I think you are right with this liner. If it would be differently you would have lots of reclamation on the MILITARY but you haven't, right?
However the STARMATE is great knife and it makes a very good duet with my duty Glock-19 (unfortunately I'm not writer only).
My article about STARMATE will be in January issue of Polish gun magazine BRON (Weapon) and this article is full of admiration and delight. I'll send you a copy when it will appear.
As to my "cheap English" - it is cheap in results but was not too expensive in obtaining also. More than twenty years ago, when I studied (including English) we had high-school free-of-charge. Of course you may use this term if you like, it's not copyrighted &#9786;
 
Oh, sorry, I posted the same massage once more.
Sorry

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 01 December 1999).]
 
Serg - Thank you. Also thank you for the article. Have you had an opportunity to communicate with Joyce at Spyderco. She is the contact for writers, Domestic & overseas. (Our PR person). She will do an excellent job of keeping you informed on the new stuff at Spoyderco. She lurks regularly.

Joyce - do you know Serg?

sal
 
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