Texas Law.....Sifus???

Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Messages
4
Well I ordered my first Sifu a few weeks ago (018 of the red g-10 series) and loved it so much I have already ordered and received my second, this time in C.F. and black-t. I decided to carry the black on black one, but I am not sure about the legality in Texas. Does anyone know if this knife is legal to carry if it is carried, as expected, with the pocket clip? I am not sure whether the partially exposed knife would cause any exemptions to the concealment law relating to knives, thus allowing it to be larger and still legal. Any informed responses would greatly be appreciated.

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......The Ruffian
 
Our understanding is that TX has a blanket ban on the carry of "blades of 5.5" or greater". Which is why the Sifu measures 5.45".

Now, let's clarify that. There's three ways to measure a folder's blade:

1) Cutting edge length. Probably the second most common.

2) "Stabbing penetration depth", the most common and plausibly the most "fair". We generally assume that the thumbstud "doesn't count" as being able to halt the stab, so with the blade open we measure from where the G10 (or Carbon Fiber) stops and the exposed blade metal starts. From there to the tip should be just under 5.5" on your Sifu (like all the rest).

3) "Blade length with the knife disassembled": every once in a while some idiot of a cop or DA comes up with the novel idea of counting the pivot metal that never clears the grip as part of the "blade", which would give the Sifu a "blade length" of nearly 6.5". This is clearly BS in any case, but in TX it's even more clear: because the 5.5" stated maximum applied equally for folders and fixed blades, applying a "one inch penalty" to all folders is not only ridiculous, it clearly puts the cops in the area of "creating law", which is illegal throughout the US.

Now, the next question is "if you have a legal knife, must you open-carry it, or can it be concealed"?

I found the following link of interest: http://capitol.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/codes/PE000031.html

First critical reference:
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"(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown;

(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto, and poniard;

(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear."
---

Good, because if they "cut your Sifu long" and it's right at 5.5", you're still OK.

The Sifu doesn't meet the definition of "Bowie Knife", and I sorta doubt any sub-5.5" knife could? Well, maybe if it was half-double-edged.

"Dagger" shouldn't be a problem either but to make sure, don't sharpen any of the false edge, not even the last .5" near the tip that vanishes into the grip on closing and *could* as a practical matter be sharpened.

This is interesting:

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(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.
---

Per this, a distinction is being made between "knife" and "illegal knife", I guess implying that there's such critter as a "legal knife". The Sifu is most definately a "knife", but sure as hell doesn't appear to meet any definition of "illegal knife", at least not in the factory single-edge condition.

Later, we get to:
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"Sec. 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club."
---

No problem so far. If the Sifu isn't an "illegal knife", then there's no offense in carrying it about your person.

Best of all, I cannot find ANY references to anything illegal to do with a "knife" alone as per "7" above. There are illegal places you can go with an "illegal knife" that will net you a bust, you can't give an "illegal knife" to a minor, but there's no illegality whatsoever connecting with carrying a "plain 'ol non-illegal knife", which the Sifu appears to be.

There's just one possible gotcha:
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(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and that:

(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or

(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.
---

So is the Sifu a switchblade?

If it is:
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Sec. 46.05. Prohibited Weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:

(1) an explosive weapon;

(2) a machine gun;

(3) a short-barrel firearm;

(4) a firearm silencer;

(5) a switchblade knife;
...
---

So if it's a switchblade, you're screwed.

Is it? I *doubt* it - no springs, for starters, and the thumbstuds are a clear indication it was intended for manual opening.

But it CAN be "flicked" open via centrifugal force. So can most linerlocks such as the Spyderco Military or whatever. And the fact that it's 5.45" instead of 4" isn't explicitly any sort of problem under TX law so if they're gonna declare the Sifu illegal, there's a LOT of "accidental felons" running around Texas. Hundreds of thousands.

Upshot: it appears that the Sifu is legal for concealed or open carry in TX, your choice. A particularly nasty cop or DA might try and rope it in under the switchblade rules but I doubt they'll succeed. A real lawyer (WHICH I'M NOT) will be able to do a case law search on just what is or is not a switchblade.

What we have NOT talked about here is school carry (K-12 and University may be different) or rules local to a particular town that may be more strict. I have no idea if stricter local ordinances are allowed under TX law or common if they are.

Last point: a "new laws" page I came across has implications for costume sword or large knife carry, such as a SASS event, SCA meet or whatever: http://www.thebluesnews.com/New%20Laws.htm

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§46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY

The provisions of §46.02 relating to carrying an illegal knife do not apply to a person carrying a bowie knife or sword used in a historical demonstration or a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
---

Hope this helps some...

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
My Calif-oriented knife page: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/blades.html

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 07-20-2000).]
 
Thank you very much Jim. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond with all of the pertinent information you included. I personally feel most knife laws are antiquated. I have carried knives before for defense that I'm sure were not legal, but I always like to know the risk I take. I prefer not to carry a knife I know is going to cause alot of controversy. Thanks again for the response.
 
Heh. Didn't take too long. And be careful about the areas not fully explored, such as schools, local city/county rules and the switchblade thing.

When REKAT was tossing around the basic megafolder concept I was pushing HARD, the subject of blade length came up. I wanted 6" to match the Cold Steel Vaquero Grande but at a higher quality level, and Bob was balking a bit at that. Doing sub-5.5" was a compromize to expand the potential market specifically into TX, something I suggested. REKAT went for it, and the end result was wonderful.

But when you queried on TX knife law, I realized I hadn't dug into it quite as much as I should have back when I proposed 5.45", so the research above was my way of making up for that prior lack
smile.gif
.

If that makes any sense. Anyways, if I ever go to Texas, I'd personally pack my Sifu. And given that it's serial number one
biggrin.gif
I wouldn't do that if I thought the risk of confiscation was serious.

Three things I didn't mention yet:

* When dealing with a cop, attitude matters. If there's any chance it's gonna be spotted or if you're heading into a PD Station, calmly explain that you're carrying a legal folding knife and ask what they want to do. If they want to hold it while you do business, no sweat, point to where it is and let them draw it and hang onto it. Being willing to let them sit on it and not scaring the hell out of 'em goes a long way towards making them happy.

* If they DO want to confiscate, calmly recite the code sections by number whereby you feel it's a legal piece. If that doesn't work, calmly ask for a supervisor. Failing that, get a reciept. Don't lose your cool, it's a really bad idea.

* In TX, it's easy to get a concealed gun carry permit if you're 21 or over. I'd highly recommend doing so if you can, and for that matter carrying at least a "mousegun". Many cops view the permit as a "good citizen card" of sorts due to the background check, and with a knife "real close to the limits of legality", the CCW permit may be the difference between hassle and wink even though a TX CCW doesn't explicitly cover "unlimited cutlery" the way AZ/FL permits do.

As to the gun, hey, it's like a fire extinguisher. You hope you never have to use it, and if you never need it it never causes harm so long as you keep it concealed
smile.gif
. But if you need it, you REALLY need it
smile.gif
. The Sifu is as potent a substitute as you can get and with training, it's OK in some sudden close-range sitations.

But a boomthing sure opens up your options
biggrin.gif
.

Jim
 
On "how to measure blade length" where the statute doesn't exactly say, there isn't a whole lot of case law on the subject, but here in the AKTI forum there are a couple of court cases from Nevada and California that say basically that if a criminal law can be reasonably read more than one way, you read it in the way that gets an acquittal.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Hi, if I'm not mistaken, Texas has a pre-emption law which prevents any city, town, or other polictical subdivision in Texas from enacting any laws on weapons that are more restrictive than what the legislature of the State of Texas has already enacted. It prevents some of the idiocy you see in other states, where you can be legal in one city with a particular knife, but not in another. As far as I tell, unless the Sifu somehow can fall under the catagory of a gravity blade,{Switchblade), it's totally legal to carry concealed or openly.

Doug
 
Ya, but...is that a preemtion law on GUNS, or "weapons". California has gun law preemption, but cutlery is "anything goes".

Somebody from TX needs to provide a more definitive answer on this, complete with a quoted bit of law as I did above.

Jim
 
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