The Official Jackknife Q&A thread!!!

V

Voltron

Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
565
I figured I'd start a thread where we can ask one of our most respected members, Jackknife, questions. He has a lot of knowledge to share and lots of stories to tell, so come on in and pick his brain!!
 
ok JK here it is. How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?
 
JK, I hear you talk about certain pocket knife patterns, but I was wondering..... did you ever carry a Trapper pattern? You mention them a few times, even have a story about one, but never seem to have migrated towards them. I think this odd, since this seems like a very folksy, old-school pattern that the men in your life would have carried.
 
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if.....oh....nevermind.

You have wonderful stories but I wonder if you had pics of some of these places and people.
 
For a very brief time in the late 70's, I played with a Uncle Henry trapper. It was a fine knife, and I found no fault with it, but the pattern never grabbed me. I don't know why, but it just didn't click with me. I gave it away.

Probably my most non scout/sak type knife used in my life was the medium size stockman like my Buck 301. I liked the 3 7/8ths size, and it did a lot of work for me in both the army engineers and the machine shop.

I think it was having two long blades. If I have a multiblade knife, I liked the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch size sheepsfoot and spey blades for back up on a medium stockman. I feel like I have more control in fine cutting with a smaller blade. The trapper didn't give me a shorter blade. I didn't find the trapper as versitile as my stockman. Heresy to some, I know. If I go for a two blade knife, I go for barlow's, medium Texas jacks, and the beloved peanut. I like the fine point clip combined with the spear point pen back up.

I think patterns are like ice cream; one guy goes nuts over rocky road, while the next guy wants pistachio, and another fella wants plain old vanilla.
 
Being a Kentuckian it is ingrained into my genetics to like the Stockman pattern, between the 6318 & the 63032 by Case which do you find more desirable.
 
madmatt said:
Being a Kentuckian it is ingrained into my genetics to like the Stockman pattern, between the 6318 & the 63032 by Case which do you find more desirable.
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Ten years ago, I'd have went with the 63032 without a thought. But now getting older, and apreatiating more compact pocket items, I have to admit the rounded bolsters of the 6318 have an appeal to me, as does the slim turkish clip.

Both are great knives, and either would do to go down the trail with.
 
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Great info. I've got a feeling I'm gonna learn a lot from this thread....thanks for taking the time to field questions JK!
 
Being a machinist and knife person perhaps you could answer this, Jackknife. How come Victorinox, maker of the Swiss Army Knives, can get a consistent fit on their knives, no blade wobble when open, no rubbing the other blades or the liners when closed, consistent edge grind on the blade, etc., and a lot of the other makers seem to be "hit or miss" in these areas? What's the difference?
 
coyote711 said:
Being a machinist and knife person perhaps you could answer this, Jackknife. How come Victorinox, maker of the Swiss Army Knives, can get a consistent fit on their knives, no blade wobble when open, no rubbing the other blades or the liners when closed, consistent edge grind on the blade, etc., and a lot of the other makers seem to be "hit or miss" in these areas? What's the difference?
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Hi,

The difference is that SAKs are a simpler to make and assemble design than are the more traditional patterns like Peanuts or Stockmen.

There are no bolsters, so no scales to fiddle with to get the fit just right. Just simple slabs that cover up the entire knife. No springs need to be flush, they are either hidden or held well below the surface. The spacing between tools is generous. So it's easy to prevent rubbing. And not much crinking is need to gain that fit between tools.

All parts are stamped or molded. So they are very accurate and consistent. The individual parts are designed to be very machine friendly. Not much hand work is needed to make a SAK. And Victorinox has striven to keep current with manufacturing technology. Updating machines and processes to eliminate as much handwork as possible. Something most other makers haven't done. In fact, they often boast of using tools and techniques that are a 100 years old or even older. All combined with much handwork to fit and finish their knives.

But if you wish to look close, you will see fracture lines on the aluminum spacers, nor are the sharp edges broken much if at all. The scales are a bit oversized. and when you do have exposed springs, like on an old model Soldier, they aren't flush. They are either proud or a bit low. If your favorite traditional looked looked that you would be upset.

Victorinox strives hard to make an affordable product that is consistently good. As another old machinist, I can marvel at that. But, by the same token, they just don't seem to have quite the same soul as my traditional slippies have.

dalee
 
dalee100 said:
Hi,

The difference is that SAKs are a simpler to make and assemble design than are the more traditional patterns like Peanuts or Stockmen.

There are no bolsters, so no scales to fiddle with to get the fit just right. Just simple slabs that cover up the entire knife. No springs need to be flush, they are either hidden or held well below the surface. The spacing between tools is generous. So it's easy to prevent rubbing. And not much crinking is need to gain that fit between tools.

All parts are stamped or molded. So they are very accurate and consistent. The individual parts are designed to be very machine friendly. Not much hand work is needed to make a SAK. And Victorinox has striven to keep current with manufacturing technology. Updating machines and processes to eliminate as much handwork as possible. Something most other makers haven't done. In fact, they often boast of using tools and techniques that are a 100 years old or even older. All combined with much handwork to fit and finish their knives.

But if you wish to look close, you will see fracture lines on the aluminum spacers, nor are the sharp edges broken much if at all. The scales are a bit oversized. and when you do have exposed springs, like on an old model Soldier, they aren't flush. They are either proud or a bit low. If your favorite traditional looked looked that you would be upset.

Victorinox strives hard to make an affordable product that is consistently good. As another old machinist, I can marvel at that. But, by the same token, they just don't seem to have quite the same soul as my traditional slippies have.

dalee
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Close, but you left a few things out.

Several years ago, when the plier tools started to make a serious threat to the sak style of knife, They made a desision at Victorinox. I saw Karl Elsner talk about this on an interview. They made a record re-investment of profit into all new CNC machines, the latest and most high speed tooling on the market. This allowed them them make the product faster and with more precise fit than ever before. Victorinox has kept pace with the advances in CNC technology, and updates tooling regularly. A big change from the practice at places that keep on making do with the old machines, until they no longer are viable in the market and go belly up.


It's an extremely competitive market out there, and you have to have the best machines out there to stay in the game. Victorinox is now one of the biggest knife companies in the world, but keep a level of fit and finish that is a given on the consumer market. You can buy a Victorinox sak, and know it is going to be just like the last one you had, about 99% perfect.
 
JK,
Military service is full of stressful times. However I think every veteran can remember many a time when the extreme stress was broken by extreme humor. Maybe a buddy said something completely off the wall at just the right moment, or completely messed something up in front of someone important. At any rate, I know you've got a story locked away in there somewhere that I'm eager to hear about. If you'll share it with us, make sure ya start it out in the current army tradition of, "So what happened was..."
 
dalee100 said:
Victorinox strives hard to make an affordable product that is consistently good. As another old machinist, I can marvel at that. But, by the same token, they just don't seem to have quite the same soul as my traditional slippies have.

dalee
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Thanks dalee & jackknife. That all makes sense. 100% agreement on the lack of soul of the Vic's.
 
I have half a dozen SAKs, I gift them more often than any other knife but they generally go to non-knife people. Knife people understand and appreciate the nuances of stag and bone, that each knife is an individual. So folks like my Dad get the nice Fight'n Roosters and Cases while others who think a knife is a knife is a knife get SAKs.
 
the topic of soul in a knife is a very interesting one to me. Going back a few hundred years to Japan, we had the Samurai. The soul of the samurai, it was said, was his sword. However, with a few exceptions, the vast majority of samurai swords were very utilitarian in look and design. An almost three foot long blade with a simple hilt and a wrapped handle. The handles were usually wrapped in simple, everyday material so they could get a good grip. These simple, humble weapons went on to become legendary and world renown. They attained their "soul" by being used. The soul of an object such as a sword, knife, or tool, is something that is passed on by the user, not the maker. A part of the owner is said to be left behind in said object, even wedding rings and other assorted jewelry. This is why older pocket knives are such treasures, at least well used ones, because they have stories to tell. They were carried and used. They developed a soul. I totally believe a SAK can develop a soul. A grandfather's SAK has soul, as does a Father's. Again, pocket knives are not made with souls. They have to earn them.
 
Voltron said:
The soul of an object such as a sword, knife, or tool, is something that is passed on by the user, not the maker.
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Very well said! :thumbup:

Here's a perfect example: My father ALWAYS carried a pair of pliers and a 1/2" - 9/16" wrench in the pliers pocket of his bib overalls. When he passed away (8 years ago last Friday), we moved his recliner to our house. About a year later I turned the recliner upside down to adjust the tension on it, and his 1/2" - 9/16" Craftsman wrench fell out of it. Now there couldn't be a more mundane object than a wrench, but that one brings tears to my eyes every time I look at it or handle it. Sorry it's not a knife story, but the principle is the same. And no intent to hijack this thread either - just an example of how an object can have soul.
 
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Voltron said:
the topic of soul in a knife is a very interesting one to me. Going back a few hundred years to Japan, we had the Samurai. The soul of the samurai, it was said, was his sword. However, with a few exceptions, the vast majority of samurai swords were very utilitarian in look and design. An almost three foot long blade with a simple hilt and a wrapped handle. The handles were usually wrapped in simple, everyday material so they could get a good grip. These simple, humble weapons went on to become legendary and world renown. They attained their "soul" by being used. The soul of an object such as a sword, knife, or tool, is something that is passed on by the user, not the maker. A part of the owner is said to be left behind in said object, even wedding rings and other assorted jewelry. This is why older pocket knives are such treasures, at least well used ones, because they have stories to tell. They were carried and used. They developed a soul. I totally believe a SAK can develop a soul. A grandfather's SAK has soul, as does a Father's. Again, pocket knives are not made with souls. They have to earn them.
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I can go along with this, I think. I have some mixed feelings on the subject, but in general I feel the nuances as Absintheur calls it, of stag and bone and carbon steel developes more 'soul' faster than the stainless and plastic sak's. I',ve had sak's that I bonded with, like that old Wenger SI that's around here someplace in the stuff at the bottom of my sock drawer. I bought it longer ago than I care to think about it, but it got carried a very long way and used a lot. My old Buck 301 stockman with it's plastic scales and stainless blades is still around, and that knife speaks to me. It got carried a quarter century and on four continents. I think anything can develope some soul in enough time.

Funny thing about sak's though; they do hacve a mighty appeal to non-knife people, and that is not a bad thing. Anything that gets a non knife person to start carrying a knife is a good thing, yes?

I really do believe that I've converted more non knife people over to the knife carrying by a gift of a small Vic classic. Small yes, but these days I'll take any victory I can get.
 
Jackknife, I think you hit the nail absolutely on the head when you singled out SAK's massive investment programme as the reason for their unambiguous quality.

By investing in the most modern and advanced machinery,together with an ongoing training scheme(wages in Switzerland are not exactly low....) they've retained their strength. If they hadn't done this then they would have gone the way of Sheffield, a long drawn out and painful end where neglect in skills training, paucity of proper decent workshops due to non investment and gross exploitation of craft skills led to a terminal decline in quality and reputation.
 
I will also say that Mr Van always took this quote to heart...I don't know if he had ever heard it but he certainly seemed to follow it...

"The Scoutmaster teaches boys to play the game by doing so himself."
--Sir Robert Baden-Powell

That is one of the things I liked about your Scout stories...someone who led from the front.
 
jackknife said:
I can go along with this, I think. I have some mixed feelings on the subject, but in general I feel the nuances as Absintheur calls it, of stag and bone and carbon steel developes more 'soul' faster than the stainless and plastic sak's. I',ve had sak's that I bonded with, like that old Wenger SI that's around here someplace in the stuff at the bottom of my sock drawer. I bought it longer ago than I care to think about it, but it got carried a very long way and used a lot. My old Buck 301 stockman with it's plastic scales and stainless blades is still around, and that knife speaks to me. It got carried a quarter century and on four continents. I think anything can develope some soul in enough time.
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From what I've read on here, many of the old school, traditional users of the past did indeed have plastic Handles. Barlows, Stockman, Soddies, you name it, many had that utilitarian plastic Delrin hande since it holds up to hard use better then bone, stag, or wood.
Something to think about.
 
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