Thoughts on authorized dealers raising GEC prices above the minimum sale price.

Triton

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I don't think the 'legislation based' solution he meant was the government trying to tell you how many knives you can buy but rather something directed towards bots. I'm not sure how that would work either.
After reading the referenced article I suspect you are right. However I still have faith in the marketplace. If left to its own devices industry and supply and demand will solve the problem. The only reason that scalping works is because there is enough demand to support the activity and the supply is limited. Eventually either supply will catch up because GEC or a competitor(s) will create more production (and there is nothing inherently innovative or unique about what GEC is doing) or alternatively demand will be reduced because prices are too high or people move on to the next fad.
 

Quiet

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I don't think the 'legislation based' solution he meant was the government trying to tell you how many knives you can buy but rather something directed towards bots. I'm not sure how that would work either.

It definitely wouldn't work for a ton of reasons that would get this thread dropped in the Political Sewer, so I'll refrain from listing them out. In simplest terms, asshats using bots only really hurts the fans and would-be customers of those products they snap up. The manufacturers, companies, and resellers all get "theirs". So, no legal recourse would really stand out, because what can the lawyers for an attempted class action suit really say? "Your Honor, I stand here today to share the message of the wronged parties I represent, and in their words...ahem..."WAAAAHHHH WE WANT OUR TOYS AND DON'T WANNA PAY EBAY SCALPERS FOR THEM!" Ahem, sorry, anyway, we'd like to move to have all bot coders arrested and charged with taking candy from children. Thank you."

Do I hate it? Yep, sure do. However, I don't see any way to get it to stop other than doing what absolutely no one seems to want to do: simply not buy them. Scalpers exist because people will continue to buy no matter the price. Is what it is.
 

knifeswapper

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Being an authorised dealer makes you the representative of the brand and gives you preference to the product that others do not have. For that you are expected to adhere to the price boundaries, both high and low, set by the manufacturer.
If GEC are seeing some of their authorised dealers arbitrarily setting prices based on demand and this leads to price gouging, they should take steps to rectify it.

Do you have some examples, in writing, of manufacturers setting ceilings on their original retail pricing? I don't guess I have ever seen it in any brand I have dealt and would be interested in the wording and specific policy. May be it is something I could use to discuss the issue with GEC.
 

Steven65

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Do you have some examples, in writing, of manufacturers setting ceilings on their original retail pricing? I don't guess I have ever seen it in any brand I have dealt and would be interested in the wording and specific policy. May be it is something I could use to discuss the issue with GEC.

Obviously I don't have it in writing and I doubt most brands even have it in writing. However that is the policy of most if not all of the reputable manufacturers. It has to be in order to preserve the integrity of the product. If you are a factory appointed dealer and you begin to price gouge or sell for cost or below, you damage the brand.
Perhaps the reason that you never encountered it is because you don't mess with the pricing. Start advertising the product at below cost or twice the MSRP and see what happens.

As the GEC management have a long history in the knife world you would expect them to know this. That leads me to believe that they either don't want to enforce price controls on their dealers, or they don't care.
Since it appears that this strategy is helping them sell all they can make, either one could apply.

Any company that allows their appointed dealers to sell way in excess of MSRP is making a strategic business mistake.
 

The Amazing Virginian

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I see this as nothing but a big argument about who gets what share of the profit between GEC, the dealers, and the "flippers." Oh and a lot of whining :mad: by folks that they can't get some knife they want cheaper than what the market says the price will be based on supply and demand. No one has a right to get any knife from any maker or dealer at a particular price.

Who cares? And if you're GEC or a dealer, I don't think you want to totally squeeze out flippers either, as they (and their quick profits) generate buzz/hype and further demand for your products from others. Case in point is the Beer and Sausage knife where IMO some fair number of folks want to get one just because it has become more expensive and hard to get one. People always want and pay more for something just because they think it is in demand or hard to get. And secretly they think they could always flip it, too, somewhere down the line if they get it at the right price. Hype works.

So I think it's a delicate dance for GEC between what they charge their dealers and what they recommend the dealers charge and how much they keep those prices below what people (e.g., flippers) then sell them for in the secondary market. I'm sure they're judging all that as best as they can for their own long term benefit.
 
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Personally I want Bill to make knives as economically as possible and put them in the distribution channel. Finding some ill-intent on behalf of the factory because they refuse to get involved in the greatest free market in the world is a bit perplexing to me. The selling channels that dealers use should, over time, separate the wheat from the chaff.

In the meantime, one dealer profits $15 on a knife the next profits $300+ on. If you had a rock in your hand and two guys walked up to you - one offering $15 and one offering $300; which would you take? It is not a secret what I think of dealers becoming flippers - but in doing so they will clear more profit on one knife than I do on all of mine. And let's don't fool ourselves - a good portion of the buyers at $64 are going straight to eBay to get their $300. So, with GEC putting out $64 TC Barlows I thought I would at least see a slowdown in "factory controlled market" discussions.

This comment was originally here, but I am quoting it in this thread because it seemed to fit here better.

With some dealers doing big markups like this it seems like being a GEC dealer is just being a flipper with an inside connection to GEC. While some dealers put considerable effort into their website and helping the knife hobby in general, some are getting their box of knives from GEC and listing them on ebay for big profits. There doesn't appear to be any real value added by these dealers.

With "dealers" like that it seems GEC could just about go into the "dealer" business themselves. They already list a few items for sale on their site, including some knives.
 

knifeswapper

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With "dealers" like that it seems GEC could just about go into the "dealer" business themselves. They already list a few items for sale on their site, including some knives.

I told Bill the exact same thing. Hire two more employees; discontinue the dealer network; and sell directly to customers. That eliminates two problems. 1) Customers can be allowed to purchase one of each variation for a set amount of time; allowing more customers to partake. And, 2) flippers can no longer go to 5 different dealers rounding up knives for flip on eBay. What he reminded me (not really reminded because this has been my point all along) that would work great during to great times. But when things slow down the factory must have a dealer network to stock knives - not burden the factory with having excessive inventory. Plus about 5 other reasons that the factory does not want to get involved in the distribution past their dealers.
 

HEMI 49

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I told Bill the exact same thing. Hire two more employees; discontinue the dealer network; and sell directly to customers. That eliminates two problems. 1) Customers can be allowed to purchase one of each variation for a set amount of time; allowing more customers to partake. And, 2) flippers can no longer go to 5 different dealers rounding up knives for flip on eBay. What he reminded me (not really reminded because this has been my point all along) that would work great during to great times. But when things slow down the factory must have a dealer network to stock knives - not burden the factory with having excessive inventory. Plus about 5 other reasons that the factory does not want to get involved in the distribution past their dealers.

No manufacturer wants to own the dealer network.... Imagine buying your Maytag dishwasher from the Maytag factory.... Too many headaches at the dealer level that manufacturers want to avoid.....

But, think of this..... What if GEC created a registry for knife buyers..... You register at GEC and then when you buy a knife from XYZ dealer that sale goes into the registry which blocks further sales of the same knife from other dealers.... That would prohibit people gathering up multiple knives and flipping them on Ebay......
 

TinyDog

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How many folks know how the stock market works?????

Well the way is is supposed to work is upon briefings and company success through earnings a stock will rise and a fall based on performance. Its a shame that this is not true anymore. The folks whom have the money control the stories... We do not know as as much as we engage in the the internet our only real source of info... Its all BS controlled by media.

GEC product regardless of quality is no different, I cannot wait to see the dummies eat crow when they realize their pocket knife is not a piece of gold. Ha ha, do what you want all.... these are pocket knives. General Tools and in this day and age not even that but realistically toys we grown ups like to look at..... with the thought at best. When time comes around they may be worth retail at best in the future. Please do not take my word for it............................... Think hard and Harder. Its a loosing proposition at best. Have fun pretending what you have is going up in value, in most cases its because folks are buying in this time frame as a Covid distraction. Lets see how long this lasts. Do what you enjoy, do what you do. Don't fool yourself of any real value.

MY thoughts which are honest from my soul and very realistic to me as a 30 year knife enthusiast. Do want you choose in you in your hearts that make you happy... I am not condemning anyone but wish all to have fun.....................
 
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I am not condemning anyone but wish all to have fun.....................

that’s really at the center of this for me. I like GEC knives. I’ve enjoyed their various patterns, and I like that they are making traditional knives in the USA. That’s fun.

I don’t like watching websites for a 35 second window or responding to an email within 12 seconds to buy a knife. That’s not fun.

and it does annoy me that that or a flipper seems to be the only way to get a GEC these days.
 

Jsega51

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GEC product regardless of quality is no different, I cannot wait to see the dummies eat crow when they realize their pocket knife is not a piece of gold. Ha ha, do what you want all...When time comes around they may be worth retail at best in the future. Please do not take my word for it...

Have fun pretending what you have is going up in value, in most cases its because folks are buying in this time frame as a Covid distraction. Lets see how long this lasts.

MY thoughts which are honest from my soul and very realistic to me as a 30 year knife enthusiast.

I really don’t collect GEC’s anymore and I agree that they aren’t made out of gold, but here’s a few issues I can see with your soul’s thoughts:

1. It’s not a distraction from Covid. Prices have been going up as more and more people are getting interested in traditional knives and I’ve seen quite a change in the Trad forum with the addition of many more members joining the fold, many of whom are coming from the modern knife side of things. This started years ago and if you pay attention to the exchange, you’ll see how much buying and selling has been happening since long before 2020. Are some people paying too much? I think so, but most of the transactions are pretty fair and a lot happens outside the forum. Not everyone is paying $450 for the same knife, just a few.

2. That increased interest leads to more people buying. There’s not many traditional knife companies to buy from, much less spend money and get a quality knife, even fewer that are truly USA made. When the new ones do pop up, GEC is already ahead of the game with a huge following.

3. Not sure how you can discount quality, but that’s always played a role in collector items. Rarity plays a big role also and a whole lot of knives out there just got much more rare with them announcing they aren’t doing SFO’s for the time being, and no indicator if they will again in the future. With GEC, you get both quality and rarity and that can’t change for the knives that are already made since many are small batches.

4. GEC also makes their knives in a very traditional way, using 100 year old machines from other knife factories. I think that alone will play a big factor in future collectibility since they simply won’t be the same as knives from a company using new methods. It’s that traditional aspect that I think will always be appreciated, especially when it seems newer companies entering the fold are using screws and such.

5. With laws getting stricter, I feel eventually locking knives with flippers and all the other modern features will take a hit, leaving the tried and true slipjoint as an even better option for people to start carrying again. Slipjoints will never leave the knife scene, they’ve already survived much too long.



GEC has been around since 2006 so that coincides with the entire second half of your 30 years of knife enthusiasm. They’re just starting to really take off over the last couple of years so I think you may need more time before claiming that dummies will be eating crow.
 
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GEC product regardless of quality is no different, I cannot wait to see the dummies eat crow when they realize their pocket knife is not a piece of gold. Ha ha, do what you want all.... these are pocket knives. General Tools and in this day and age not even that but realistically toys we grown ups like to look at..... with the thought at best. When time comes around they may be worth retail at best in the future. Please do not take my word for it............................... Think hard and Harder. Its a loosing proposition at best. Have fun pretending what you have is going up in value, in most cases its because folks are buying in this time frame as a Covid distraction. Lets see how long this lasts. Do what you enjoy, do what you do. Don't fool yourself of any real value.

https://news.avclub.com/a-box-of-pokemon-cards-just-sold-for-over-400-000-1846124859
 

EngrSorenson

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Yay! A place to rant?

Let’s say the monopoly guy realizes there’s a profit to be turned with GEC, so he uses his infinite and colorful Monopoly money to become a GEC distributor. Then he goes around to each other distributor and buys up as many GECs as he can with the help of some friends interested in a share of the profit.

for the sake of argument let’s say he gets 90% of each pattern. He’s done nothing illegal; just used his immense wealth and free time to acquire knives.

but now he’s going to flip them- easy profit even at 2x per flip, but we’re talking 4x per flip.

now say what you want about free market, the monopoly guy hasn’t done anything illegal. What he has done, however, is a job that provides no additional quality to the knife or buying process. He’s like a cancer feeding off a host. He’s used his station as a “distributor” and his wealth to take advantage of others. The money doesn’t go to the producer of the product, nor the other distributors who do the job the producer doesn’t do “in house”.

it’s not illegal, but I’ll sure as hell shame these people and bash them for their shameful, disgraceful and dishonorable ways. A swift kick to their delicates is in order.

I’d rather pay higher prices to honorable people and make sure GEC and the upright distributors see a profit. We should value these people who provide a service.
 

brownshoe

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Yay! A place to rant?

Let’s say the monopoly guy realizes there’s a profit to be turned with GEC, so he uses his infinite and colorful Monopoly money to become a GEC distributor. Then he goes around to each other distributor and buys up as many GECs as he can with the help of some friends interested in a share of the profit.

for the sake of argument let’s say he gets 90% of each pattern. He’s done nothing illegal; just used his immense wealth and free time to acquire knives.

but now he’s going to flip them- easy profit even at 2x per flip, but we’re talking 4x per flip.

now say what you want about free market, the monopoly guy hasn’t done anything illegal. What he has done, however, is a job that provides no additional quality to the knife or buying process. He’s like a cancer feeding off a host. He’s used his station as a “distributor” and his wealth to take advantage of others. The money doesn’t go to the producer of the product, nor the other distributors who do the job the producer doesn’t do “in house”.

it’s not illegal, but I’ll sure as hell shame these people and bash them for their shameful, disgraceful and dishonorable ways. A swift kick to their delicates is in order.

I’d rather pay higher prices to honorable people and make sure GEC and the upright distributors see a profit. We should value these people who provide a service.

Wow!
 

mrknife

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Eh thats what gets me about some of the places. Yesterday there was a dealer, not sure if they are a paying member so I wont mention them, but they basically had a drawing for the chance to buy one of the TCs of which they tacked on another say $30. Which Im not sure includes the shipping but still a little unfair compared to some of the other places that sold it at suggested price vs those who tacked on a little more vs those who instantly dumped their allotment on ebay. However these are strange times, so caveat emptor.
 
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willc

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Did anybody snag one of those sepia bone TC’s at Gunstock Jacks for 259 bucks?

Some awesome deals out there.
 

The Amazing Virginian

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I really don’t collect GEC’s anymore and I agree that they aren’t made out of gold, but here’s a few issues I can see with your soul’s thoughts:

1. It’s not a distraction from Covid. Prices have been going up as more and more people are getting interested in traditional knives and I’ve seen quite a change in the Trad forum with the addition of many more members joining the fold, many of whom are coming from the modern knife side of things. This started years ago and if you pay attention to the exchange, you’ll see how much buying and selling has been happening since long before 2020. Are some people paying too much? I think so, but most of the transactions are pretty fair and a lot happens outside the forum. Not everyone is paying $450 for the same knife, just a few.

2. That increased interest leads to more people buying. There’s not many traditional knife companies to buy from, much less spend money and get a quality knife, even fewer that are truly USA made. When the new ones do pop up, GEC is already ahead of the game with a huge following.

3. Not sure how you can discount quality, but that’s always played a role in collector items. Rarity plays a big role also and a whole lot of knives out there just got much more rare with them announcing they aren’t doing SFO’s for the time being, and no indicator if they will again in the future. With GEC, you get both quality and rarity and that can’t change for the knives that are already made since many are small batches.

4. GEC also makes their knives in a very traditional way, using 100 year old machines from other knife factories. I think that alone will play a big factor in future collectibility since they simply won’t be the same as knives from a company using new methods. It’s that traditional aspect that I think will always be appreciated, especially when it seems newer companies entering the fold are using screws and such.

5. With laws getting stricter, I feel eventually locking knives with flippers and all the other modern features will take a hit, leaving the tried and true slipjoint as an even better option for people to start carrying again. Slipjoints will never leave the knife scene, they’ve already survived much too long.



GEC has been around since 2006 so that coincides with the entire second half of your 30 years of knife enthusiasm. They’re just starting to really take off over the last couple of years so I think you may need more time before claiming that dummies will be eating crow.

Where are "laws getting stricter?" I believe the facts show that knife laws have been significantly LOOSENED in most places in the US in recent years, a lot of which is due to the work of Knife Rights.

What am I missing here?
 

Jsega51

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What am I missing here?

You missed the fact that I never specified US laws.

Many members on this forum are from outside the US and in many recent threads, there’s been references from several countries who are experiencing certain knives being targeted at customs centers, mostly knives with flipper tabs, assisted opening features, etc. A close example is Canada.
 
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