Titanium liner

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pskriel

Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
9
I really really want to get myself an Emerson, but I have been hesitant because of the titanium liner lock. For me titanium frame locks without a steel insert is a deal breaker and not many things are deal breakers for me. I just wanted to ask the experienced emerson users when the lock wears all the way to 100% lock up what happens after that when it still wears? I live in south africa so sending a knife to the manufacturer for any warranty isn't really a option. Thanks in advance 😊

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After that, you peen the lock spring to make it longer, have a new liner made, or retire your knife.

Titanium will wear pretty fast, but it doesn't necessarily mean within your lifetime. Lotta variables.

If I were in your situation, I'd use it until it wears out years or decades from now. Then peen until that option is exhausted. By then, if I still didn't want to send it in to get it back to factory spec, I'd have a new locking liner made using the old one as a template, only made out of steel.

The steel will most likely NEVER wear out within your lifetime.
 
Thank you! Because I haven't had a titanium liner or frame lock without an insert, I don't have any experience on the time it takes for titanium to wear. So then I will give it a shot. That cqc-15 have been speaking to me for months. Thanks for feedback!

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Jamesh Bond said:
After that, you peen the lock spring to make it longer, have a new liner made, or retire your knife.
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Click to expand...

Or have a slightly bigger stop pin made which should be relatively easily done by a machine shop. The standard pin is 0.187 inches in diameter and I've had good luck with new pins at 0.192 to 0.195 inches diameter

The ends will have to be stepped to 0.187 so the pin will fit into the liners. There is a limit to this fix but the knife will last for years.

Most Emerson liner locks are destroyed through using the wave too much. Use the wave when you need it, not routinely, and the lock will last longer than you will.
 
Murindo said:
Or have a slightly bigger stop pin made which should be relatively easily done by a machine shop. The standard pin is 0.187 inches in diameter and I've had good luck with new pins at 0.192 to 0.195 inches diameter

The ends will have to be stepped to 0.187 so the pin will fit into the liners. There is a limit to this fix but the knife will last for years.

Most Emerson liner locks are destroyed through using the wave too much. Use the wave when you need it, not routinely, and the lock will last longer than you will.
Click to expand...
Dang! I Knew I forgot something. That was really bugging me.

O well, it's early.

Yes. The stop pin trick is another solid one.
 
Murindo said:
Or have a slightly bigger stop pin made which should be relatively easily done by a machine shop. The standard pin is 0.187 inches in diameter and I've had good luck with new pins at 0.192 to 0.195 inches diameter

The ends will have to be stepped to 0.187 so the pin will fit into the liners. There is a limit to this fix but the knife will last for years.

Most Emerson liner locks are destroyed through using the wave too much. Use the wave when you need it, not routinely, and the lock will last longer than you will.
Click to expand...
Yeah, although waving is fun it isn't a necessity unless in a self defense situation so that is a good tip. So bottom line is if I don't wave the knife too much it would take quite a few years before needing modification, right?

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pskriel said:
Yeah, although waving is fun it isn't a necessity unless in a self defense situation so that is a good tip. So bottom line is if I don't wave the knife too much it would take quite a few years before needing modification, right?

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Click to expand...
Honestly, I wave mine constantly. I haven't noticed anything extreme.

I really don't think waving is as torturous to a knife as its made out to be.

The stop pin is what receives impact, so if anything, it might be harder on that.

But the sideways force of the liner leaf engaging against the tang is a constant, independent of what speed the blade itself is opened.

It can't snap into place until the blade moves to allow it to. The speed until that point is irrelevant.

When I used to be obsessed with lockup percentage and theoretical blade life, I actually noticed something peculiar regarding this issue. Especially on new Emersons.

When I open the blade with direct and firm thumb pressure, the liner actually locks later and tighter than when I use a flick, inertia, or wave deployment. Very sticky.

I guess maybe when waved hard, the blade might "bounce" back from the stop pin and transmit more forces to the lockbar, but I dunno how much effect it has.

Just some thoughts. As always YMMV.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Honestly, I wave mine constantly. I haven't noticed anything extreme.

I really don't think waving is as torturous to a knife as its made out to be.

The stop pin is what receives impact, so if anything, it might be harder on that.

But the sideways force of the liner leaf engaging against the tang is a constant, independent of what speed the blade itself is opened.

It can't snap into place until the blade moves to allow it to. The speed until that point is irrelevant.

When I used to be obsessed with lockup percentage and theoretical blade life, I actually noticed something peculiar regarding this issue. Especially on new Emersons.

When I open the blade with direct and firm thumb pressure, the liner actually locks later and tighter than when I use a flick, inertia, or wave deployment. Very sticky.

I guess maybe when waved hard, the blade might "bounce" back from the stop pin and transmit more forces to the lockbar, but I dunno how much effect it has.

Just some thoughts. As always YMMV.
Click to expand...
I have had the same experience on that with other liner locks now that you mention it. Thanks for the input

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I have never had any titanium liner or frame lock ever wear away. I think the steel lock bar inserts are a solution looking for a problem.

I've had 2 different zt 0301's and the later one had the steel lock bar insert. It is very sticky and actually has later lock up than the one with all Ti. I much prefer the older generation with out the insert.
Everyone has their preferences but I really believe the wearing away thing is a non-issue.
Best of luck.
 
Thanks. That is comforting to hear. I did wonder how much was facts and how much was only perceived between titanium and steel. Well I must say I'm convinced and will be pulling the trigger on an emerson. Probably the cqc-15 as I'm very attracted to it. Thanks for all the help.

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Yep--if you like it, get it and use it with confidence. The 15 is an awesome blade. Let us know what you think!
 
Titanium liners are not like a graphite pencil lead - their wear decelerates as the interface between liner and tang begin to mate with one another and the titanium itself becomes work hardened where it contacts the tang.

Due to your location it might not make sense economically to send your knife back in the case the liner eventually does wear all the way, but there are several tricks you can use to make your lockup reset earlier, everything from peening the lock, adding material to/replacing the stop pin, adjusting the pivot screw length... lockup is surprisingly flexible, at one time, before I knew what I do about knives, I had a warranty void knife with late lockup and I simply added a thin 1mm later of Gorilla glue to the tang where it contacts the stop pin and let it dry, this earlier reset lockup worked for more than a year.
 
Does Emerson carbidize the lock face?

I believe ZT carbidizes their lock faces and despite numerous flicks / opens, my ZT560 and 550 (not a flipper but flicks with ease) have not moved much at all. The both seem to have settled in at around 35/40% (each started at around 30%) with no lock stick, etc.

My CQC7A had early but solid lockup and didn't move much either but it's not a waved model which obviously opens much quicker.
 
AJR576 said:
Does Emerson carbidize the lock face?

I believe ZT carbidizes their lock faces etc.

My CQC7A had early but solid lockup and didn't move much either but it's not a waved model which obviously opens much quicker.
Click to expand...

Emerson does not carbidize their lock faces.

ZT doesn't either, at least not the models I have. My ZT0620 has a hardened steel lockbar insert so there would be no need for carbidizing.

~John
 
jmorton10 said:
Emerson does not carbidize their lock faces.

ZT doesn't either, at least not the models I have. My ZT0620 has a hardened steel lockbar insert so there would be no need for carbidizing.

~John
Click to expand...

I was referring to the titanium framelock models that don't have the steel inserts such as my 550 gen2 and 561. Both appear to have been carbidized.
 
the larger stop pin deal changes where the detents hit unless the blade is altered to accommodate the larger stop pin. its not a great idea.

bought a used beater patriot from spmeone who did this and it wont stayed closed via detents. had to tighten the pivot down to make it safer for carry. one of these days i need to get a correct stop pin and bring it back to useful again.
 
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