Training with the Bowie, seeking a first blade

K

Knifestyle

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Dec 6, 2009
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For the last few months, besides my main sword and stick studies, I got a few casual lessons in classical Bowie from a past student of James Keating. I got hooked. I now throw in a Bowie match with our sword sparring sessions each month, some pick-up work during the week, bought my own Laredo trainer for practice at home. It gets crazier...Tomorrow, I'm flying out to Washington for a seminar with Keating himself. Like I said, I got hooked.

While I may not carry it, I'm looking for a real Bowie to bring out at cutting parties (it's a HEMA thing, we bring food and stuff to cut with live blades) and to get a feel for how the real knife handles. I have blown so much on training I cannot handle anything higher-end or custom, Cold Steel may be my best gateway to something usable.

What should I be considering? The Laredo to match the trainer? Is the Trailmaster more durable and functional? What about sheathing it? I've heard legends about the Southern Comforts but no leads from their creator.
 
The Laredo is a much better fighting Bowie, the Trailmaster a better field knife.

While the false edge on the Laredo is not cutting sharp, the raised point works well for back cuts.

The Laredo is my favorite production Bowie. While I don't much care for coffin style grips, I was able to sand mine down to both fit me better and provide more grip than the as is coated Micarta. The standard "plastic" sheath isn't worth keeping on a combat knife. You can get Southern Comfort sheath from Mike Sastre at River City Sheaths or a Sastre licensed "clone" from Panther Concealment called the Commodore.
 
If you choose the Laredo you can purchase a leather sheath made by Cold Steel. The Trail Master is a very good knife. I actually prefer it over the Laredo but my favorite Cold Steel Bowie is the Natchez. Would be best if you can hold all three before deciding which you like best.
 
You will enjoy training with JAK, a true master, gentleman, and scholar. It's pretty hard to beat a Laredo as far as production Bowies go. I'd say go with that over the Trail Master, unless your height dictates the smaller length blade. I'm 5'9", 155 lbs., and can comfortably carry and conceal a Laredo in shorts and a t-shirt in all situations. I still do "package deals" on Southern Comforts with either a Laredo or a Trail Master, or you can send me your knife. Have a great time training with Jim!!
 
Day one with JAK done, in the motel room down the street from the studio. It's been absolutely wild, bought more notebooks for the next two days. Regarding the Laredo, I'm about 5'6, 150 or so. Slighter build, short legs, longer arms. Am I still in that range, or is the Trail Master more sensible for my being an elf? My training and gear fund for the year has gone to this seminar and getting here from Chicago, everyone running customs has me wanting to get a second mortgage...
 
The Trail Master might be a better for your height, at least until you get accustomed to that type of carry, but it is more a matter of torso length than height. Only you can determine that. If you are from the Chicago area, I'm going to take a guess that it was Keith Jennings who may have introduced you to the Bowie. Give my regards to all.
 
Keith is indeed my main Bowie contact, as well as my primary strength trainer who has helped me put on 20 lbs this last year. He sends his regards! My main fighting trainer Jesse also brags he has a Southern Comfort for a throwing knife he grabbed from you at a show. At about 5'6-7, I have a notably longer torso but shorter legs and longer arms. Will try and get my hands on these models to see how they match up...Then to get it sheathed!
 
For your "cutting parties" , the long , wide , beautiful continuous curved Natchez would be the most impressive performer .Wrap or mod the handle for improved grip .

For all purpose utility and bushcraft / wood chopping and ease of carry , the Trail Master is the most practical and comes with a great rubbery grip .

My Laredo came with a brown leather southern comfort style sheath from Cold Steel . Very comfortable to carry . Intermediate in size .
 
Keith has been in the game a long time. Great martial artist and teacher, and of course, JAK is in a class of his own. Glad you got the opportunity to train with Jim.
 
I agree with all the assessments others have offered. Here's my take:

Custom bowies can be superior, but most aren't. Save yourself some money and stick with Cold Steel or Ontario. Cold Steel's bowies are fantastic, primarily because they're designed for performance. If you're looking for a fighter, normally I'd recommend the Natchez and tell you not to bother with anything else. The Laredo is a close second. I consider the Trail Master a camp bowie that can be pressed into service for defense but isn't optimal for such use due to its balance.

Given your build, you might also consider the new Drop Forged Survivalist or the Marauder. Both are sleepers that deserve more attention. And don't forget the Bowie Machete or the Black Bear Bowie Machete to fill the role of training blades (or as very inexpensive starter options).

Keating is a brilliant pragmatist, and thus a big Cold Steel fan. I know Lynn Thompson respects Keating's instruction, too, and has been supportive of some of his events. You should look into Thompson's Warrior's Edge DVDs for additional perspective.

I hope you had a great experience training out in Washington! Please let us know which knife you decide upon.

-Steve
 
Laredo's a great choice. While it sounds like the Trailmaster might be a more ideal size for you, it doesn't have as good a balance for fighting. If you feel the Laredo's too big for you to cc, you can always downsize later. There are a lot of inexpensive 9 inch bowies, like the Marauder, or other brands too, see Muela or Condor.
 
The Natchez indeed has an outstandingly "live" feel to it when put in motion, and would be my first choice if concealability was not part of my equation. My criteria for concealabilty is "can it be done wearing shorts and a t-shirt and still be able to move naturally", whether it is a knife or a pistol. No reason to upset or alert others around me. For my torso length, blades up to 10.75" work well. I can do an 11" blade, but have to think about my movements a little. The Natchez has an almost 12" blade, so would require more of a cover garment for sure, plus adjustments when sitting. The Laredo works perfectly for me.
 
y'all folks discussing this caught my attention. does body height and weight demand a certain size and length knife for fighting with a knife?
 
dogrunner said:
Sounds like Mike was just referring to carry and concealability for his mode of dress.
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Correct. Body height and weight has nothing to do with fighting with a knife. It is more attitude, skill, and using what you have with you. Anyone wanting to knife fight isn't playing with a full deck, but defense with a knife is sometimes needed, and may be the only option available at the time. That said, range is your friend and longer blades give you more range.
 
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Mike Sastre said:
The Natchez indeed has an outstandingly "live" feel to it when put in motion, and would be my first choice if concealability was not part of my equation. My criteria for concealabilty is "can it be done wearing shorts and a t-shirt and still be able to move naturally", whether it is a knife or a pistol. No reason to upset or alert others around me. For my torso length, blades up to 10.75" work well. I can do an 11" blade, but have to think about my movements a little. The Natchez has an almost 12" blade, so would require more of a cover garment for sure, plus adjustments when sitting. The Laredo works perfectly for me.
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Mike, which version of the Laredo do you prefer, the O1 or the San Mai?
 
I mostly carry the San Mai because it is easier to care for in humid conditions and is extremely sharp. Of the carbon blades, Carbon V is my favorite and the "China Doll" SK-5s are next.
 
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