Tuf-Cloth vs. Renaissance vs....

W

WRS

Joined
May 31, 1999
Messages
21
I am doing a little experiment. I want to see if any one product that claims to protect steel will out perform the others. Perhaps not real scientific, but here is my experiment:
I took a 1/8" piece of steel about 6"x12". (No, I do not know what kind it is). It had surface rust and a couple deep rust patches. I first chemically removed the rust, then washed it with water. I then sanded it down to get it nice and smooth/shiny. Rubbed it well with steelwool, and finally "cleaned" it with fresh mineral spirits and wiped it dry with paper towels. I then divided the steel into 6 equal areas and scribed lines to seperate them. Once again I used mineral spirits and dry towels to remove all fingerprint/oils.
I treated each section with the following:
1) Tuf-Cloth
2) Silicone rag (generic. Came with a gun cleaning kit)
3) Renaissance Wax
4) Johnson's Paste Wax (Plain paste wax)
5) WD-40
6) Left untreated

I took a digital picture of the steel now, and plan to take one at a later time. I set the steel outside to weather. If anyone is curious as to the outcome, I will post it here later, or perhaps even whip up a quick web page with the pics later. Bets on the winner??
wink.gif
 
Great idea. I think any experiment which is simple and practical is good. It might not answer may questions but might just help someone to ask the right ones.

I'd be interested in the results.

Tom
 
WRS, probably the biggest advantage of the Tuff-Cloth is that supposedly bonds to the metal and thus is a perm. protection that does not wear off easily or breakdown. After this round is over you might want to repeat it and simulate wear by wiping the steel with a plastic scrub pad say twice a day and see how that effects results.

Without the rubbing, I would bet the top 4 will all work well and that the one with the thickest coating is probably going to be the winner. If you start to simulate wear then the Tuff-Cloth should pull ahead.

-Cliff
 
I, too am interested in the results. Which version TUF-CLOTH are you testing? Will you do more tests like this in the future, say with TUF-GLIDE perhaps?

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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
Cliff.... Good idea about the additional test of putting a little wear a tear. I was thinking of just running my finger a couple times over each section (washing hands between) in a few days.

Mark.... I suppose I should say "Great Idea" to testing TUf-Glide too and asking for a freebie for testing purposes!
wink.gif
But, actually, I thought Tuf-Glide was more of a pivot lubricant as opposed to a protectant. I realize it does protect too, in fact isn't that the active ingedient in the Tuf-Cloth?

Bill (aka WRS)
 
Bill, Tuff-Glide is the active ingredient in Tuff-Cloth, and on the bottle it does label it as a protectant. You just apply it and wipe of the excess with the Tuff-Cloth (thus soaking it up for further use).

-Cliff
 
WRS,
I'm sure Mark can give you a MUCH better answer than I can, but we use TUF-CLOTH and TUF-GLIDE on our knives during assembly, and we love the stuff! I believe the short form answer is that TUF-GLIDE is 'liquid form' TUF-CLOTH, so if you want to get a 'heavy coat' of the ingredient in TUF-CLOTH, simply put TUF-GLIDE straight on the surface. RUST protection and thin, dry film lubricant. Just what a finely fitted folder pivot needs.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
President-EDI Knives
www.ediknives.com
 
I'm a litle skeptical about Tuf-Cloth's ability to "bond" to metal (although "bond" is maybe being used very loosely by the company). Recently, in humid weather, I've had a few things develop rust that had been treated with Tuf-Cloth.

I also agree that it would be a very good idea to do something to simulate wear on these treated surfaces.

Bernie


[This message has been edited by Bernie (edited 08 June 1999).]
 
Is it too late to add mineral oil to the test? Some of us who are paranoid about using anything toxic on a knife we might use on food are using mineral oil, and it would be interesting to see how often we really need to reapply it.

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Any idea if there will be any problems with degradation due to UV exposure? Could this be more of a factor with some of them than would be seen in practice?

I'm really not sure of any of this as I don't know how many of the products are polymer based, or what UV stabilizers they use. Just throwing it in there as a possibility that you might not see that kind of weathering normally.


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JP Bullivant
 
Excellent point Cougar:

Mark - Are you aware of any "toxicity" tests that have been done with your products or do you have any data on this yourself?

Tom

 
Wow. There's a lot of interrest here. What we need is... a webcam! That's right, a real, live video feed of steel rusting!

I hesitate to suggest it because I'm afraid that some of you will take me seriously.

As for toxicity, you should be able to request MSDS sheets for all of these products just by writing to the manufacturers. Everything's got one these days.

I used to work for a company that got an OSAH violation because the inspector found a used Band Aide in a trash can and called it "improper disposal of biohazardous waste." As a result, we had to hire a person who quickly became known as "the safety nazi." She insisted that we have an MSDS for absolutely everything in the building. One woman got in trouble for having a bottle of over-the-counter hand lotion at her desk for which she did not have an MSDS, Rose Milk as I recall. I knew the safety nazi would be inspecting my area soon, and I knew that I, secretly, had an unauthorized tube of toothpaste in my desk. So, I called the 800 number on the tube and said, "The is gonna sound stupid, but I need an MSDS for Colgate toothpaste."

The answer was, "That's not stupid. We get that request all the time. Do you want regular, minty gel, or tartar control?"

"Minty gel, thank you."

"And where should I mail that to?"

A few days later, the sheet arrived.

When the safety nazi found my tube, she thought she had me dead to rights. You should have seen the look on her face when I took my clearly labeled MSDS notebook down and turned to the Colgate MSDS page.

By the way, for those of you interrested, the fatal dose is something like three pounds. The fatal action is that it clogs your digestive tract.

Chuck

 
Tom,
Sorry I did not respond to your question on toxicity before leaving for BLADE. I know I did answer you at BLADE, great to actually meet you.

For everyone else; the active ingredients in all TUF Products are non-toxic. In order for a manufacturer to state that their product is safe to use with food it needs to be FDA approved. This approval requires more than simply being non-toxic. All steps and materials used to make the product must be germ and bacteria free. For our products that would require all sorts of special treatment and cleaning and our manufacturing facility would require FDA inspection.

Wait a second, weren't we talking about rust protection...

Our products are categorized as industrial, they are designed to protect and lubricate metals. The active ingredients really do bond to metal. That is why we are able to demonstrate our TUF-CLOTH (not Marine TUF-CLOTH) and TUF-GLIDE protecting a 1911 Series 70 pistol (mine), a Gerber Multi-Tool (mine), a micrometer (who cares) and a dagger in a 16 gallon aquarium filled with water with air bubbled through sufficient to support marine life; live in front of all the folks at BLADE '99 with complete confidence. NO RUST on any of the items after three days of this repeated abuse.

I know you folks are skeptical about manufacturer's claims. I am too. But you should realize this is all we do, make lubricants and protectants. In the 30 plus years we have been doing it we learned a thing or two. As of the end of the BLADE show our TUF Products are endorsed and recommended by more than 20 knife makers from Benchmade, CRKT and Emerson (winner of BLADE of the Year) to Ed Haligan, Masters of Defense, Edge Design and Cold Steel.

Our products are not perfect and not everyone may like them but they really do work. None of the manufacturers who endorse our products would do so unless they had complete confidence in them from actual experience.

Oh yes just a note for WRS; When we did the testing you are planning or already have done, on a much larger scale back in the early 90's we found one problem. All of the test plates had to be run in their own test chambers as some did rust very quickly and the rust from those plates got into the water and was deposited on every other plate making all look like they had rusted. A major headache this testing stuff. Even though our test results showed Sentry Solution's products to be the best we prefer the tests the Navy SEALs did, real world and real tough. Sorry to all of you for always posting such long replies. One more thing on toxicity, unless the mineral oil you use to protect your blades is medical grade it may not be safe to use with food.

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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
Mark -
I am a proud owner of a MARINE Tuf-Cloth, and I've certainly had no corrosion problems at all. But I have another question.
I'll also say that I use Renaissance Wax. I have been told by a couple of knife makers that RenWax is very good - for scales! What, if anything, would be the result of using your product on wood, ivory, MOP, etc.? I certainly don't think it would hurt the material any, but will it 'moisturize' and preserve the handle materials?
As a user of both products, I'd like to point out one of the advantages of Tuf-Cloth over RenWax. I'm certainly not about to say one is better than another at protecting the metal, BUT - when I'm going to show off my knives, I always go over them with Tuf-Cloth! The RenWax always seems to leave a little 'haze' on the blades. That doesn't disturb me any, but I know many people judge by shinyness, and the Tuf-Cloth puts a real quick gleam on most anything!

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hi guys!
what about ballistol.
It's a kind of gun-oil which builds a film (the film looks like vaseline)but it won't get hard. I made some good experiences with it. The only problem is that the film won't come off. BTW it is not toxic.
red
PS: I'm curios about your results.
 
Marvin,
To date we have not had any complaints with use of our products on handle materials. TUF-CLOTH (TC) does nicely on woods and helps to preserve wood. If used on light colored wood a darkening of the color maybe experienced as the wood will actually get wet if the TC is wet. TC also works well on leather with the same color issue as wood. (Always test on an inconspicuous area if there is any concern.)

As for other materials, what is MOP? John Greco of Greco Knives asked me a number of questions on this very topic and is testing our products for compatibility with a selection of materials. I did not connect with John at BLADE but will contact him to check on any results.

On the subject of toxicity; again none of our products are toxic. I discussed this matter with our environmental consultant who posed an interesting question. What about the silver polish and silver polishing mitts that are sold to be used specifically on cutlery, are they safe for use with food items? I checked the box on the Oneida Silver Polish Mitts we have at home and there was no mention of special care etc. I visited their web site and no info there either. The big question is; Is there a transfer of anything bad from blade to food etc.? I have been using our products for years on all my blades including those I use to cut food with knowing that the products are non-toxic. Because the TC and TUF-GLIDE protection does bond to the pores in the metal there is virtually no way of getting transfer from blade to whatever is cut. This is backed up further by tests performed in the jungles of Peru on coated machetes. The cutting edges were uncoated and so needed rust protection. TUF-CLOTHs were used to protect the edges. After days of hacking through vines, small trees and turtle shells the TC coated edges were still rust free while the oiled blades were rusted. Point is the bonding is very aggressive and not easily removed, so transfer to any food at best is minuscule.

As a newcomer to the knife market and Blade Forums I am truly appreciative of the genuine interest you folks have. Sentry is used to dealing with the firearms market where care products are a dime a dozen. As a result folks tend to look for ways to tear down products. Manufacturers have brought this on themselves by making outlandish claims. Sentry makes no claims it can not back up and it is through this type of interaction with our customers that we learn to provide better service and better products. Thank you all for your fair consideration. Whoops, another long reply.


------------------
Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
Mark (Sentry):

One thing I want to point out (for the benefit of those who may not have noticed a subtle distinction) regarding what you said above: it is the "active ingredient" that is non-toxic. Which is not to say that Tuf-Glide or Tuf-Cloth taken as a whole is non-toxic. There's other stuff in it besides the active ingredient, right? Some kind of petroleum product, if I'm not mistaken. Mark, if I understand things correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), Tuf products ARE potentially harmful if you ingest it before the toxic component evaporates, right?

By the way, does ALL of the stuff bond with the metal, or just the part directly adjacent to the metal? The fact that the jungle machete edge didn't rust does not prove that some of the product didn't or wouldn't or couldn't slough off onto other objects in the act of cutting them.

By the way, Mark, I'm a user of your products myself, and I'm not challenging the veracity of your statements. I'm just trying to clarify some points. Thank you for your participation in these Forums.

Regards,
David Rock
 
Mark, MOP is mother of pearl. I have just started using Sentry Cloth and like it so far. For people concerned about food cutting, I posted on the general forum about a FDA approved "food grade" silicon spray that is sold by The Sausage Maker out of Buffalo N.Y., for use on their meat grinders. Igot no responses over there. Anybody here familiar with this stuff?

TIA
phantom4

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who dares, wins


 
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