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Vectors Hawk updates?
- Thread starter EdgeTim
- Start date
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- Apr 21, 2006
- Messages
- 850
I have it on good authority that Vec is in his dungeon slaving away on a new batch of goodies. His last shipment of hawk heads was not up to his standards and they were sent back. He is awaiting a new batch and when he gets them I believe we will see lots more of his magic.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
brother 'shooter tipped me off to this thread - thank you, good-brother!
times like these remind me that the humble Hawk Project is definitely a group effort, and it would be stopped dead without all the Investors' phenomenal patience with me (my Erica is merciless on me, but at least i gotchooguyz, but i don't want to take advantage of your grace - you will be rewarded, if i have anything to do with it.)
you guys were reading my mind with htis thread - which is impressive, because that is a small target - har!
an update has been overdue - whih i susally a good sign i am making progress in the Hawk Dungeon. - but i apologize.
the Short Story/Update:
things are getting good here.
we really got kicked in the balls when Cold Steel had it's small issue with the hawk heads, and we have been living in the "once bitten twice shy" state of mind with them since then. - BTW the performance of their hawks was never in question, they just weren't up to our standard of aesthetics, in symmetry, etc. - Cold Steel is really bending over backwards to make it right for us, and we owe them. - they just had a glitch - which happens in manufacturing, as many here know - still a pain in the butt though.
anyways - regarding defects in cratsmanship, real and imagined,
a lot of problems that are nearly impossible to get by with, with wood handles, such as assymetric eyes in hawk or axe heads - a lot of things that are a problem such as that with wood handles can actually be an ADVANTAGE in composites, when you start getting fancy, like running wires through your hawks, etc. (yeah...
... i should stop there....)
here's a couple things we have been concerned with, and had some small victories with so far;
..............
HEADS UPDATE;
although we highly respect the Cold Steel Trail Hawk, and still think it is the best all-around choice when we get the Handpicked Heads, we have been holding what i call Red Neck Conferences with some folks we are lucky enough to have met, and we are daring them to make something better - no protoypes yet, because i am designing some stuff for some of them first - trade for trade, when you are thin on cash - but i think something good will develop with at least one of these parties...;
hating secrets and intrigue, i wish i could be more specific - we have been dealing with some well-known folks in the background, who would like to remain anonymous for the time being, who might allow us to get better heads that we had imagined possible - just not so soon to become a reality, but of course, it is taking longer than we would like.
..............
HANDLES UPDATE;
months ago, the Hawk Project was going strong - we had a huge order of heads expected in from Cold Steel, and i started making the relatively-new Gen 1 Mk 3 handle, which had a new Polycarbonate Structural Element in it added in among the Molar Internal Strike Plate - i made a bunch of them to get the jump on production when the heads came in, so i could stop taking orders and get all the custom work out of the way.
that was a good plan.
but we didn't count on having to reject ALL of the CS heads - you should've seen my wife turn white as a sheet. - good thing she has a lot of Faith in God, is all i can say.
we were hosed. - unless we made something happen, which i have tried to do, and to some level of success.
we sent out a message to the Investors - not all of them got it for one reason or another, and we lost a few clientele, bbut kept our reputation hopefully - trying to make amends ASAP -i got busy designing the Mk 4 - which i had high hopes for, but the challenges to build it were manifold;
1) i wanted it stronger and lighter than the already strong and lightweight Mk 3.
2) i wanted Internal Storage in the Mk 4.
3) i wanted to be able to build it much faster than the previous handles, so that i could increase production - which meant figuring out another mess, the Mobile Mold Technology (MMT) - which has been a huge breakthrough for us this last few weeks.
4) i wanted to make it Sectional.
5) i wanted to make it able to be made as a Universal Handle - fitting a variety of hawks with very little fitting - an effort that will allow us eventually to offer the handles as kits for you to do at home - especially nice for you to do if you have a special head or alternate tool head.
6) i wanted to be able to make the handles straight, while at great lengths, but with hardly any tooling - this would allow some interesting staffs and poll axes in the future - these long jobbies would be akin to the Sectionals, but probably lighter-weight and Non-Sectional - but we should be able to convert them with no problem - i love composites.
7) ....and a bunch of other crap that i won't bore you with yet.
..............
what have we accomplished so far?
1) we got the MMT down, and it has some more development that will allow us to make better Axe Handles and other things eventually.
2) i am testing the Mk 4 right now, as well as doing some ancillary tests - such as Faux Wood finishes on the composite - you guys wanna see some of that...? - i'm just finishing my main Materials Hawk on that right this weekend.
3) the current Mk 4 Build Method is still a Learning Process at this point, but i think objectively speaking, it will be everything we had dreamed of - lighter, straighter, stronger - with Internal Storage and Sectionality soon enough. - i am getting stoked.
4) We have a huge backlog because of the CS failures, but they should have some new heads for us shortly (although we are not counting on that), plus we expect to have some protoype heads from various people in January 2009, God Willing. - that's not good enough though, so we are going to try to make some incentives for the Investors to stay with us before then - wish us luck on that, brethren - the Happiness Guarantee is a great concern for us to maintain. - the good news is that the huge backlog should also be popped liek a huge bubble when proper heads become available as soon as we finish testing the Mk 4's (we don't want to make a million of them and find out they have a Design Error, sorry about the wait).
5) although we have had great success with handling the small-eyed tactical hawks, such as the Cold Steel VN Hawk, and have others like the Marbles Double-Bits, etc. waiting to be built - we are very close to making a far-superior handle for such hawks, that are specifically designed for them - these handles will be based on the Mk 4's if testing is successful (which i think it will be BTW). - THOSE ARE GOING TO BE COOL LIKE YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE - imagine a handle on a Tacti-Cool Hawk that looks like Walnut or Cherry, or Birch, etc., but it is super-strong composite, and has Internal Storage, and maybe even Sectionality!!!! - WE ARE SO CLOSE TO THAT THAT IT IS KILLING ME.
okay, now ya went and made me blow a couple neurons. - i'll try to bore ya with the rest muy pronto.
i forgot what i was gonna say, dang it. - that was a yes on seeing the Faux Wood Mk 4 protoypes?
let me go pound on it a little more.
sorry to rant on and on - i just love proper hawks.
you guys rawk.
vec
times like these remind me that the humble Hawk Project is definitely a group effort, and it would be stopped dead without all the Investors' phenomenal patience with me (my Erica is merciless on me, but at least i gotchooguyz, but i don't want to take advantage of your grace - you will be rewarded, if i have anything to do with it.)
you guys were reading my mind with htis thread - which is impressive, because that is a small target - har!
an update has been overdue - whih i susally a good sign i am making progress in the Hawk Dungeon. - but i apologize.
the Short Story/Update:
things are getting good here.
we really got kicked in the balls when Cold Steel had it's small issue with the hawk heads, and we have been living in the "once bitten twice shy" state of mind with them since then. - BTW the performance of their hawks was never in question, they just weren't up to our standard of aesthetics, in symmetry, etc. - Cold Steel is really bending over backwards to make it right for us, and we owe them. - they just had a glitch - which happens in manufacturing, as many here know - still a pain in the butt though.
anyways - regarding defects in cratsmanship, real and imagined,
a lot of problems that are nearly impossible to get by with, with wood handles, such as assymetric eyes in hawk or axe heads - a lot of things that are a problem such as that with wood handles can actually be an ADVANTAGE in composites, when you start getting fancy, like running wires through your hawks, etc. (yeah...
... i should stop there....)here's a couple things we have been concerned with, and had some small victories with so far;
..............
HEADS UPDATE;
although we highly respect the Cold Steel Trail Hawk, and still think it is the best all-around choice when we get the Handpicked Heads, we have been holding what i call Red Neck Conferences with some folks we are lucky enough to have met, and we are daring them to make something better - no protoypes yet, because i am designing some stuff for some of them first - trade for trade, when you are thin on cash - but i think something good will develop with at least one of these parties...;
hating secrets and intrigue, i wish i could be more specific - we have been dealing with some well-known folks in the background, who would like to remain anonymous for the time being, who might allow us to get better heads that we had imagined possible - just not so soon to become a reality, but of course, it is taking longer than we would like.
..............
HANDLES UPDATE;
months ago, the Hawk Project was going strong - we had a huge order of heads expected in from Cold Steel, and i started making the relatively-new Gen 1 Mk 3 handle, which had a new Polycarbonate Structural Element in it added in among the Molar Internal Strike Plate - i made a bunch of them to get the jump on production when the heads came in, so i could stop taking orders and get all the custom work out of the way.
that was a good plan.
but we didn't count on having to reject ALL of the CS heads - you should've seen my wife turn white as a sheet. - good thing she has a lot of Faith in God, is all i can say.
we were hosed. - unless we made something happen, which i have tried to do, and to some level of success.
we sent out a message to the Investors - not all of them got it for one reason or another, and we lost a few clientele, bbut kept our reputation hopefully - trying to make amends ASAP -i got busy designing the Mk 4 - which i had high hopes for, but the challenges to build it were manifold;
1) i wanted it stronger and lighter than the already strong and lightweight Mk 3.
2) i wanted Internal Storage in the Mk 4.
3) i wanted to be able to build it much faster than the previous handles, so that i could increase production - which meant figuring out another mess, the Mobile Mold Technology (MMT) - which has been a huge breakthrough for us this last few weeks.
4) i wanted to make it Sectional.
5) i wanted to make it able to be made as a Universal Handle - fitting a variety of hawks with very little fitting - an effort that will allow us eventually to offer the handles as kits for you to do at home - especially nice for you to do if you have a special head or alternate tool head.
6) i wanted to be able to make the handles straight, while at great lengths, but with hardly any tooling - this would allow some interesting staffs and poll axes in the future - these long jobbies would be akin to the Sectionals, but probably lighter-weight and Non-Sectional - but we should be able to convert them with no problem - i love composites.
7) ....and a bunch of other crap that i won't bore you with yet.
..............
what have we accomplished so far?
1) we got the MMT down, and it has some more development that will allow us to make better Axe Handles and other things eventually.
2) i am testing the Mk 4 right now, as well as doing some ancillary tests - such as Faux Wood finishes on the composite - you guys wanna see some of that...? - i'm just finishing my main Materials Hawk on that right this weekend.
3) the current Mk 4 Build Method is still a Learning Process at this point, but i think objectively speaking, it will be everything we had dreamed of - lighter, straighter, stronger - with Internal Storage and Sectionality soon enough. - i am getting stoked.
4) We have a huge backlog because of the CS failures, but they should have some new heads for us shortly (although we are not counting on that), plus we expect to have some protoype heads from various people in January 2009, God Willing. - that's not good enough though, so we are going to try to make some incentives for the Investors to stay with us before then - wish us luck on that, brethren - the Happiness Guarantee is a great concern for us to maintain. - the good news is that the huge backlog should also be popped liek a huge bubble when proper heads become available as soon as we finish testing the Mk 4's (we don't want to make a million of them and find out they have a Design Error, sorry about the wait).
5) although we have had great success with handling the small-eyed tactical hawks, such as the Cold Steel VN Hawk, and have others like the Marbles Double-Bits, etc. waiting to be built - we are very close to making a far-superior handle for such hawks, that are specifically designed for them - these handles will be based on the Mk 4's if testing is successful (which i think it will be BTW). - THOSE ARE GOING TO BE COOL LIKE YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE - imagine a handle on a Tacti-Cool Hawk that looks like Walnut or Cherry, or Birch, etc., but it is super-strong composite, and has Internal Storage, and maybe even Sectionality!!!! - WE ARE SO CLOSE TO THAT THAT IT IS KILLING ME.
okay, now ya went and made me blow a couple neurons. - i'll try to bore ya with the rest muy pronto.
i forgot what i was gonna say, dang it. - that was a yes on seeing the Faux Wood Mk 4 protoypes?
let me go pound on it a little more.
sorry to rant on and on - i just love proper hawks.
you guys rawk.
vec
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2006
- Messages
- 303
[zombie]GRaaaiiggggg BBBaaaarrrrr Graaaiiiiiggggg Baaarrrr[/zombie] 
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2006
- Messages
- 850
Egads! I believe we have stumbled upon the first stupid question...Ahem, pics?
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
alrighty.
here's a little Mark 4 Prototype. - i am still working on it, plus we need to do a bunch of testing still.
besides trying to improve the endoskeletal features of the Generation 1 Mk 1 - 3 Composite Handles, i wanted to work on options in the new Gen 1 Mk 4 Composite Handles.
my main goal is to make a stronger handle, with the Gen 1 Mk 4, but there are other objectives, like making it even lighter, and maybe a little more incognito - i wanted a tactical grade tool, that looked like an Heirloom.
the handle dimensions have slightly changed with this protoype - about as big around as the standard Cold Steel Slip Handle that they supply, but with ergonomic improvements.
pictured here (below) is my idea of a good product; easy-to-replace hardware!
i have a touch of the Flu, so my brain can't recall what that little rubber thingy is called, but you can get them in any hardware store - they friction lock into the polycarbonate core of the handle, to allow you to store whatever you want for the entire length of the handle. - also that means there are no threads for us to "marine/FUBAR" - always a concern of mine. - i destroy things without touching them - that's why you want a monkey like me designing your next hawk handle.
- or maybe not.
ahem.
sure, we will probably pretty the rubber thingy up a tetch - we will certainly make improved versions ourselves in fact - but i wanted the Investors to have an idea that we subscribe to the Simple Is Best Principle, and to realize that they can modify their hawks with such things as this - just imagine replacing that simple bolt with a snowmobile spike or an eye hook for instance, amongst other adaptive goodies we intend to present as possiblities .......
the tube is 1/2 inch in inner diameter - plenty of stuff could go in there. - i think i am going to size-up the cross section on my staffs, and on custom hawks, etc, for even more storage. - i welcome opinions and advice on that BTW, fellow-babies.
for this prototype, i wanted to try a rough skin - it's easy on the hands, but has super good grip on it - we can make them glass smooth as well, but i like them this way.
i haven't quite gotten the hang of making this style of hawk yet, but i like it a lot.
close up of the texture and faux wood finish.
on the production models, we will Matte Coat everything, unless otherwise desired. - as you can see, parts of this hawk are glossy - it hasn't been "beautified" yet remember - this is just a Materials Test Hawk.
no buddy'd probably even want it.
i don't know what to call this style - i have some other wood finishes to still do - i think a working title for this would be Heirloom C1.
it reminds me of when you open an old forgotten case and find your grandfather's perfectly-preserved 30-30...:thumbup:....
it gives me Happy Thoughts.
i still have a ton of decisions to make on how the Mk 4 hawks will go.
i also don't want to try the Investors' Patience any longer - i am as nervous as a cat in a Rocking Chair Factory about that right now - but there are a lot more things l'd like to figure out how to put on these new handles, like our Stadia Lines, which would integrate into our new Zero Seam we are developing (see picture below).
i think they are gonna work, from what i have seen so far.
i love the new handle size, which works better for little hands, but still locks in big hands and gives nice control and tracking especially - also good for thick gloves, or wrapping for more cushion (these composite handles are more forgiving than most synthetic handles, so cushion isn't too necessary - it's a matter of opinion though.)
i am sorry this is kind of a shitty post - the Flu is knocking me out and the rest of the family is just starting to get it, so we are a ton of laughs.
i'll try to update you guys again shortly.
thank you, Investors! - i swear to God it will be worth the wait - that's the Happiness Guarantee - but God Bless you for your Patience - i feel like we really are sucking right now - hehehe!
your bud,
vec
here's a little Mark 4 Prototype. - i am still working on it, plus we need to do a bunch of testing still.
besides trying to improve the endoskeletal features of the Generation 1 Mk 1 - 3 Composite Handles, i wanted to work on options in the new Gen 1 Mk 4 Composite Handles.
my main goal is to make a stronger handle, with the Gen 1 Mk 4, but there are other objectives, like making it even lighter, and maybe a little more incognito - i wanted a tactical grade tool, that looked like an Heirloom.
the handle dimensions have slightly changed with this protoype - about as big around as the standard Cold Steel Slip Handle that they supply, but with ergonomic improvements.
pictured here (below) is my idea of a good product; easy-to-replace hardware!
i have a touch of the Flu, so my brain can't recall what that little rubber thingy is called, but you can get them in any hardware store - they friction lock into the polycarbonate core of the handle, to allow you to store whatever you want for the entire length of the handle. - also that means there are no threads for us to "marine/FUBAR" - always a concern of mine. - i destroy things without touching them - that's why you want a monkey like me designing your next hawk handle.
- or maybe not.
ahem.
sure, we will probably pretty the rubber thingy up a tetch - we will certainly make improved versions ourselves in fact - but i wanted the Investors to have an idea that we subscribe to the Simple Is Best Principle, and to realize that they can modify their hawks with such things as this - just imagine replacing that simple bolt with a snowmobile spike or an eye hook for instance, amongst other adaptive goodies we intend to present as possiblities ...
....the tube is 1/2 inch in inner diameter - plenty of stuff could go in there. - i think i am going to size-up the cross section on my staffs, and on custom hawks, etc, for even more storage. - i welcome opinions and advice on that BTW, fellow-babies.
for this prototype, i wanted to try a rough skin - it's easy on the hands, but has super good grip on it - we can make them glass smooth as well, but i like them this way.
i haven't quite gotten the hang of making this style of hawk yet, but i like it a lot.
close up of the texture and faux wood finish.
on the production models, we will Matte Coat everything, unless otherwise desired. - as you can see, parts of this hawk are glossy - it hasn't been "beautified" yet remember - this is just a Materials Test Hawk.
no buddy'd probably even want it.
i don't know what to call this style - i have some other wood finishes to still do - i think a working title for this would be Heirloom C1.
it reminds me of when you open an old forgotten case and find your grandfather's perfectly-preserved 30-30...:thumbup:....
it gives me Happy Thoughts.
i still have a ton of decisions to make on how the Mk 4 hawks will go.
i also don't want to try the Investors' Patience any longer - i am as nervous as a cat in a Rocking Chair Factory about that right now - but there are a lot more things l'd like to figure out how to put on these new handles, like our Stadia Lines, which would integrate into our new Zero Seam we are developing (see picture below).
i think they are gonna work, from what i have seen so far.
i love the new handle size, which works better for little hands, but still locks in big hands and gives nice control and tracking especially - also good for thick gloves, or wrapping for more cushion (these composite handles are more forgiving than most synthetic handles, so cushion isn't too necessary - it's a matter of opinion though.)
i am sorry this is kind of a shitty post - the Flu is knocking me out and the rest of the family is just starting to get it, so we are a ton of laughs.
i'll try to update you guys again shortly.
thank you, Investors! - i swear to God it will be worth the wait - that's the Happiness Guarantee - but God Bless you for your Patience - i feel like we really are sucking right now - hehehe!
your bud,
vec
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2006
- Messages
- 303
I wait because I want it done right not rushed.....get better soon.....
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
thanks, brother - we appreciate that, and we will not forget our debt to you for your grace.
your bud,
vec
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 5,755
vec
"Good things" are worth waiting for. So right now you have to take care of yourself, and get rid of the flu. It sounds like you are making some great breakthrough's with your handle design's they sound great! All your hard work will pay off ! Take Care...and Thanks for the update...
"Good things" are worth waiting for. So right now you have to take care of yourself, and get rid of the flu. It sounds like you are making some great breakthrough's with your handle design's they sound great! All your hard work will pay off ! Take Care...and Thanks for the update...
I'm happy waiting too. Quick question though...on the sectionality thing, is that so the hawk can potentially break down and be carried in a pouch, then assembled to various lengths and used? This may be a stupid question, but that might be cool as long as it retains its strength...
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
no question is stupid, brother! - if there's one thing i can't stand, it's folks who think they are good teachers and such, when they really suck and aren't makin' sense! har!
no, we won't make Sectionals that are weak - nothing goes out the door here that we wouldn't rest our life on. - i've made some hawks on special request that i didn't want to - but they were all good to go, as far as reliability went. (- or they were Experimentals, which we hand out a lot to Investors to test for us, but they are told ahead of time that we are unsure of what they can do - most of the Experiments survive, and we get a lot of valuable information from them all.)
yes, the Sectionality is so that folks can essentially put a proper long hawk in their pocket, but it is also to allow one to have several tools in one;
- a pocket axe and a short tomahawk have a lot in common,
put an extension on that and you've got a proper long hawk,
put another section on that, and you've got a poll axe, or even a staff with a hawk head on the end - whcih would be great for SAR and just foolin' around in boats in general....
leave the head section holstered, and use the sections as a cane or staff, tent pole, etc.,....
you could use the other sections as part of your pack frame, or in a modified style of Arnis, etc.
i think i am going to make the Sections assymetric lengths, so one can refine what they want with different sections.
there are so many possibilities with Sectionals - the Gen 1 Mk 4 is going to be the lead-in to that effort - if i had a mill, i would've been doing Sectionals last year, but the lack of shop set-up here has necessitated the need to get crafty - it's been an interesting evolution here.
i just did three more Mk 4 protoypes that are waiting for some skins downstairs in the Hawk Dungeon ('not allowed to work on Sunday, as i try not to burn in Hell) - learning a new design is always hard - but i figure that after i knock these out, we will go hell-bent-for-leather, as the saying goes, and start defeating the Wait.
the next dragon to slay will be to get our own heads made, which i think will please a lot of folks.
pray for the humble Hawk Project, brethren.
thanks again.
your bud,
vec
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
thanks for your kind words, brother.
i am sure we will get those Sectionals down sooner or later - the idea is solid and there is a need, so that usually means things will happen;
we just need to keep tooling up, so we will eventually be able to make them fast, at a price that is right for every buddy.
vec
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Messages
- 1,058
Exciting stuff! While it sucks to have to wait, the 'hawks are improving by leaps and bounds. Being an Investor has truly been a good Investment so far by the looks of it.
Keep at it Brother Vec, we're with you 100%
Keep at it Brother Vec, we're with you 100%
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,745
'three-baby!
man! i've missed you, brother - it's great to see you here - thanks for the kind words.
the hawks really did just get a whole lot better, i reckon.
..........
brother 'three and i are old buddies and he and i got to camp in the Sequoias a couple months ago with some other crazies. boy! was that fun.
ya couldn't find a greater gentleman and he knows a lot of dirty tricks.
good camping buddy.
..........
i think the Mk 4's are going to be really cool on the La Gana style hawks especially, once i figure out how to neck them down just right.
we just got some bites today from one american manufacturer on some possible heads for us, and my Isnag mentor is talking about getting us squared away with some aliwah heads and maybe some made-in-the-PI tomahawk and axe heads that we could handle - the Isnags are really good blacksmiths.
it's hard to wait without popping.
vec
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Messages
- 1,058
Thanks for the kind words, Vec.... they are compliments all the more, coming from you..
hugs to the family too...
Time for a pirates rendevous sometime in the near future!
Anyway, for those that are on the fence about these 'hawks, let me chime in as someone who has wielded a couple of 'Vec's masterpieces (borrowed, sadly) in various "dire" circumstances (Ron Hood's camper getting stuck on a tree, firewood gathering in the pitch dark, etc) These things are just amazing; they are light but powerful, and just 'belong' in your hand. And those were the Mark 2s and 3s... There's nothing quite like a long 'hawk nestled in your arm as you go about your camp activities. It actually beats a rifle in terms of the feelings of security it bestows... As we found out, we could throw that bugger a long ways and get it to stick....
hugs to the family too...
Time for a pirates rendevous sometime in the near future!
Anyway, for those that are on the fence about these 'hawks, let me chime in as someone who has wielded a couple of 'Vec's masterpieces (borrowed, sadly) in various "dire" circumstances (Ron Hood's camper getting stuck on a tree, firewood gathering in the pitch dark, etc) These things are just amazing; they are light but powerful, and just 'belong' in your hand. And those were the Mark 2s and 3s... There's nothing quite like a long 'hawk nestled in your arm as you go about your camp activities. It actually beats a rifle in terms of the feelings of security it bestows... As we found out, we could throw that bugger a long ways and get it to stick....