Warranty Question

[joe90]

Just took delivery of a new Spyderco Calypso Jr (SE - VG10). Very sharp. :thumbup:

However, the blade tang does not line up flush with the locking bar. By that I mean that there is a significant "step" (0.8mm - 1mm; estimate) up to the locking bar when the blade is locked open. (ie not flush) The blade still locks in position though, so it does not look like there are any issues there.

The enclosed leaflet says "Each Spyderco product is guarenteed to be free from manufacturing and material defects for a period of one year from the date of your purchase."

So, my questions are:

(1) What do you all regard as a manufacturing defect?

(2) Do you think that this kind of 'finish' (for want of a better word) is a manufacturing defect? (or am I being too finicky?)

Apologies to those who may already have seen this post on the General Forum board, but it was suggested that I post this query here - which I had totally forgotten about.

Joe

 

[Carl64]

My VG10 Calypso Jr was perfect in the lock alignment. The ZDP189 version was a little off, but only a little and if I push it down hard it starts to approach the right level. I wish it was perfect, but I think it will wear in over time.

Other Spydercos, mostly Delicas and Enduras, are way off, with the blade positioned too low.

 

[joe90]

Other Spydercos, mostly Delicas and Enduras, are way off, with the blade positioned too low.

Why is this? ... anyone? ... I don't understand why this should be the case.

QC? Design? Manfacture?

Joe

 

[Carl64]

Why is this? ... anyone? ... I don't understand why this should be the case.

QC? Design? Manfacture?

Joe

I think just cheaper manufacturing. I don't think we have gotten an official word. Some people have blamed it on the nature of FRN handles, but that isn't it because I have seen individual knives which were perfect. It's just not consistant.

I am hoping the new Delica will be better.

 

[HoB]

I would give Amanda at Spyderco a call or send her an email and ask her about it.

 

[mike_mck2]

Just my opinion, but it does not seem reasonable to ask a company to provide perfect fit & finish, even if they are willing to do so, on an inexpensive FRN handled knife.

It just does not seem proper to me to put a company on the spot by asking if it's "acceptable".
If they "fix it'", they invite other repair requests of the same nature, and if they don't, they start catching flak for poor customer service.

It's just a lower end of the spectrum FRN handled knife, and I don't expect custom level, or even high dollar, fit & finish on a knife of that nature.

Again though, it's just my opinion.

 

[Carl64]

Just my opinion, but it does not seem reasonable to ask a company to provide perfect fit & finish, even if they are willing to do so, on an inexpensive FRN handled knife.

The fit of the blade to the lock bar affects the security of the lock.

It just does not seem proper to me to put a company on the spot by asking if it's "acceptable".

If Spyderco thinks it's acceptable, surely they have the courage to say so. Why is it not proper to get a clearly imperfect product and ask the manufacturer if it is within their specifications? Are we supposed to accept less because it might hurt their feelings to ask them to explain their own product?

 

[mike_mck2]

Actually, I do not think it does effect the security of the lock, as I have one with the same lockup, and have had others. None have failed in any way at all.
Perhaps Spyderco can comment on this, but it does not seem likely that they would sell them if they did have lockup problems.

It's not about hurting their feelings. It's about expecting a level of fit & finish on a low dollar production knife that is, in my opinion only, unreasonable to expect and ask for.

It is only my opinion, and of course others probably feel differently.

 

[Carl64]

Actually, I do not think it does effect the security of the lock, as I have one with the same lockup, and have had others. None have failed in any way at all.

I have one which requires much less than usual movement of the lock bar to unlock. I can unlock is with a tight fist.

Perhaps Spyderco can comment on this, but it does not seem likely that they would sell them if they did have lockup problems.

I'm sure most of the units tested are within what they planned and don't fail. But no manufacturer can expect 100% of their products to be within specs, so customers have to report flaws or disatisfaction.

It's not about hurting their feelings. It's about expecting a level of fit & finish on a low dollar production knife that is, in my opinion only, unreasonable to expect and ask for.

The Delica is about $40. I have seen knives costing less with better fit. For example, those long-running Berettas with skeleton blades. They have cheaper steel, but they are also some kind of molded handle and the 2 I have are both perfect, so much that you almost have to look twice to see where the parts meet. I have seen others at shows that are the same. It's not unreasonable to think a more expensive knife might have better steel but the same precision.

Maybe people don't just buy for the price either. Maybe someone wants the size, weight, design, and steel but was expecting the parts to fit better and would be willing to pay a few dollars more if they did.

 

[skcusloa]

Just took delivery of a new Spyderco Calypso Jr (SE - VG10).

The enclosed leaflet says "Each Spyderco product is guarenteed to be free from manufacturing and material defects for a period of one year from the date of your purchase."


Joe

When did it become one year? I thought it was life time. No where on my boxes (don't have any leaflets) does it mention a time period.

 

[maxster]

Go ahead and send it to Spyderco. I'm sure they'll make it right.

 

[tazkristi]

Joe90,
Hopefully, this can clear some things up, but I do have some questions for you that can help me, help you. First, the only product that we have a one year warranty on is the byrd line. All Spyderco products are warranteed for life.

In respect to your Calypso Jr., where did you purchase it from (online retailer, storefront retailer, private partly or online auction? What type of box did it come in and did it have the Calypso information on it? What does the leaflet look like (we haven't used the leaflets in several years)? It's difficult to say if it's within tolerances or not without actually seeing the knife. We have some knives returned with similar problems and a good cleaning took care of it (if the knife is carried in a pocket ocassionally lint can become trapped and cause the problem you're experiencing.

Please contact me direct (khunter@spyderco.com) with the above information and we'll get you taken care of.


I thought perhaps some information I posted on our forum (on our site), might be useful here too. We do have a full time QC department. However, it is not feasible to QC each individual knife of every production. The fact is we are a production knife company selling / shipping hundreds or thousands of knives every day. There is always a "human" factor and the truth is occasionally things get by even us, no matter how strong our desire to ship a perfect product.

However, with all of that said, we do test our knives quite extensively to insure they are meeting our standards (I say our own standards because ours are higher than what we have found to be typical of the industry as a whole). Each product is backed by 27 years of research and development to find the best possible steels, handle materials and ceramics. Since we are making knives, safety is a prime consideration. Because hard-core data is relatively unavailable in the knife industry, Spyderco has created its own R&D department and its own testing laboratory. We test our products for safety, primarily by breaking them, in mechanical areas where safety would be a concern, and by constant use where there might be a design consideration that could be a safety issue. Since there is little data on the actual performance of a blade steel, Spyderco has its own equipment for testing sharpness and edge retention of different steels. We do our own Rockwell testing, we have a goniometer for testing edge angles and we own one of 25 CATRA testing machines in the world (tests sharpness and edge life).

Carl, specifically to your post regarding your Delicas and Enduras. I would like to ask, if you contacted us regarding the issues that you had (i.e. calling W&R)? We have not been made aware of an issue with the Delica and Endura to the magnitude that you describe as common, so that is why I ask if you've contacted us directly. There are many variables that must be considered. I cannot defend or accept responsibility for Spyderco based on the information you provided (and I'm more than willing to do either).

We have a less than 1% return rate. It is true there is an “unknown” return rate, but I cannot accurately account for that, although we are willing to accept responsibility within reason for it (meaning we cannot control product fraudulently sold as NIB from an individual or online retailer). Keep in mind; we employ CQI™ (Constant Quality Improvement™) at all times. This means that every item returned for W&R issues is analyzed and we use our findings towards bettering our products. This includes our policies and procedures too.

In terms of "cheaper manufacturing", I disagree. There is a lot of pride that goes in to our product, both USA made and Seki City. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Spyderco, not the least of which, our size and how we operate. Most of you know we are a company of 34 employees (total, that's ownership, admin, sales, marketing and production). We are a family. A typical day here includes seeing and interacting with nearly every employee in the company (this includes Sal & Gail). I know there are many companies that think of themselves as "family", but you'll notice there are no quotes in my original statement - we are a family. We take great pride in what we do; we get excited about it every day.

Spyderco never has and never will knowingly sell an inferior product, nor do we hope that if a problem is found that people simply won't communicate that to us (certainly not because of our feelings). In addition to a dedicated W&R department we use our forums, participation on several others as well as public shows to insure that we are available for comments and questions about our products. One of the benefits of the technology of today is, there is always a way to contact someone directly with Spyderco. No matter where you are.

Kristi

 

[Carl64]

Carl, specifically to your post regarding your Delicas and Enduras. I would like to ask, if you contacted us regarding the issues that you had (i.e. calling W&R)? We have not been made aware of an issue with the Delica and Endura to the magnitude that you describe as common, so that is why I ask if you've contacted us directly. There are many variables that must be considered. I cannot defend or accept responsibility for Spyderco based on the information you provided (and I'm more than willing to do either).

I never contacted Spyderco directly. I hate "sending things back" and usually just return items to the location purchased if I have to, rather than paying for shipping, so I did not request warranty service. I got a pretty good deal on the one which was way off due to a missing pocket clip and box, even though it was brand spankin new. I only paid $20 or $25 for it, so I didn't want to pay $11 for insured UPS shipping and possibly $5 return shipping, not sure if that would apply or not. I figured "screw it, I'll just make this a $20 test knife for sharpness comparisons."

I did post a complaint in this forum about it and other units with similar but less drastic problems, possibly more than once, which I recall having arguments with people over similar to the ones here, mostly about how bad is OK for a $40 knife. I have also asked in the forum about the consistency of the FRN Delicas vs. all-stainless Delicas and other models, which I have seen fewer of but much fewer "defects" as I see them, with similar results.

I look at 4 measurable things when examining a lockback (on top of the things which are dificult to measure, like spring snap and smoothness):
1. Similarity of lock bar position when blade is opened vs. closed
2. Alignment between back of blade and lock bar position when opened
3. How far the front of the lock bar has to rise to disengage
4. How far the rear of the lock bar has to be pressed to release the blade

Getting back to that Delica, it was particularly bad with item #3 listed above. It only rises 1/32", or less than 1mm, before the blade is released. That is about 1/2 of the rise of most other Delicas and less than 1/2 of the same measurement for the Rescue Jr.

Item #2, the blade appearing to "hang low" in the opened position, is the one I notice most often with Delicas. I have seen it as bad as 1.5mm below the ideal location, but a 1997 (or earlier) Delica I have is absolutely perfect.

Only that one Delica was bad enough to be be a real problem, but I think 1.5mm of travel is not very precise. I would have liked some kind of official word like "the blade is supposed to be exactly aligned with the lock," or "it's supposed to be no more than .3mm below the lock bar" so I would know how far off a given knife is.