WaterStones or Oil stone sharpening??

[HD Street Glide]

Hello,
I have been trying to find as much possible information on new sharpening systems. I grew up learning to sharpen knives on my Dad's three stone oil Buck sharpening stones. I do own some of the DMT diamond blocks, but I would like to do a set of high quality stones. It seems that the consensus is the waterstones these days.

I had contacted Norton about which route and they recommended the oil stone route they said the waterstones are more inclined to the wood worker. I would be mostly sharpening my hunting, fillet and our kitchen knives. I also have a Emerson CQC12 that will be my carry knife.

With these type of knives would I be wiser to do the waterstone or oil stone route? I have also tossed around the idea of a sharpening system, but I am kind of thinking staying with the more traditional sharpening style.

Thanks for any ideas,
Mike

 

[hardheart]

how fine an edge are you looking to apply, and what kind of steel?

 

[richard j]

have you seen the cardboard wheels? they do a good job once you learn how to use them. stevebot, a member here sells the wheels to members here at a discount. steve@bottorff.com here is his email if you wish to find out more.

 

[HD Street Glide]

Thanks,
The steel on the Emerson is listed as a premium blade steel 57-59 R.C . If I go the Bench Stone route I would more than likely go with 4 stones.

Mike

 

[he who say]

oil stone without the oil.

 

[ColtM1911A1]

My system has evolved to the following method after decades of trial and error in finding what works well for me. Many dollars and mounds of frustrations later, this hopefully is the final product:

I would recommend DMT diamond stones from extra-extra coarse (establish primary bevel - 11.5" size) to medium grits (edge), HD Street Glide, then purchase the fine and ultra-fine ceramic stones from Spyderco to enhance the final bevel. Follow that up with a smooth, leather strop with CrO applied and then a few final passes on a smooth, steel rod should get you where you want to be. And please, NO oil or water should ever touch your stones until they are ready to be cleaned and put away...

FWIW, buy the largest stones you can afford -- they make the process much easier when you have a large surface to work on. In fact, I would go on to say, wait until you can afford the large stones before you buy; the smaller versions are just too limiting. I do have smaller versions (including EZ-Lap and ceramic rods) for my field pack when hunting or logging or being somewhere other than my workshop...

It's too early in my experimenting with 0.5 micron paper to recommend quite yet, but it's certainly promising as a final procedure before the smooth, steel rod...good luck


DISCLAIMER: The preceding personal opinions are just that -- opinions. They were derived through study & reading, from conversations with other firearm enthusiasts, and by finalizing my own experiences regarding the subject at hand; the comments are not intended as a slight against any other opinion/opinions from forum members or administrators...

COLTM1911A1

 

[HD Street Glide]

Colt.
I was looking at those Spyderco ceramic stones, are you pretty satisfied with those? I had been digging through the past posts looking for input on the Spyderco ceramics but did not come up with much. I do have a couple of the DMT blocks but only in the coarse grade and 6" is the largest. I might just look into that route:thumbup:

Mike

 

[sm2]

Norton India coarse / fine [IB6 or IB8] , used Dry, will handle all your sharpening of any steel.

Norton makes a 3" version of this stone which I highly recommend for portable use situations.
Again, use dry.

 

[hardheart]

the spydercos are very good, medium is about 800 equivalent, fine 1200, ultra fine 4000. The coarse DMT you have is 325.

 

[HoB]

Well in direct comparison, the waterstones have pretty much everything going for them except for price. Coarse waterstones cut faster than oilstones in general. The water is much easier on the fingers, and once you go into the finer grits, there are no oilstones to compare against. The fine side of the Norton coarse/fine oilstone is about as coarse as a coarse waterstone, about 325-500ish grit (waterstone grit). A fine waterstone starts around 4000 grit. The Arkansas stones go maybe up to 4000 grit at the most, but they don't cut the high carbide steels very well anymore. They are very slow. In the extreme, you can find waterstones up to 30000 grit (they are unaffordable though).

As a purely personal recommendation: I would go with an XX coarse diamond stone for heavy stock removal and use a 700 grit Bester waterstone to clean up what the diamond stone left. The 700 Bester is also a great starting point for even an edge that is fairly far gone, but doesn't need to be completely reset. After the 700 it gets a bit more personal preference, and I would want to recommend anything. There are the ceramic stones, diamond stones and waterstones. I wouldn't consider any oilstones.

Personally, I find the ceramic stones too hard and the diamond stones I have not tried out fully. I am very fond of my very soft waterstones. I use them in this grit range now exclusively as strops, in a very similar way as Nozh describes how he uses his strop pads. I and am very happy with the results. It think in may ways waterstones are the perfect strop. They have just the right hardness, and they never need to be loaded. Their downside is, they are fairly expensive and they are fragile (don't drop them). Soak time is not a problem. After I am done, I wrap them individually wet into aluminum foil and I have not had problems with mildew and they stay wet enough that they need only a minute pre-soak before using. Just my $0.02 as always.

 

[AlonzoMosely]

Why no oil with oil stones? I picked up some Arkansas stones to teach myself how to sharpen freehand. Should I not use the honing oil that came with them?

 

[thombrogan]

Why no oil with oil stones?

Only two reasons I can think are:

1. John Juranitch said no.
2. It's messy

Oil; especially kerosene; breaks down the bonding agents of oilstones so you can sharpen faster. Even mineral oil works great as it keeps the stones from loading.

HD Street Glide,

Do you want a toothy edge or a polished edge on your knives? If you want a toothy edge, either stay with your DMT blocks or save up and get the larger DMT Dia-Sharp benstones. If you want a polished edge, save up for a King 1000/6000 combination waterstone to use after getting a good edge with your DMT coarse block.

 

[ColtM1911A1]

Colt.
I was looking at those Spyderco ceramic stones, are you pretty satisfied with those? I had been digging through the past posts looking for input on the Spyderco ceramics but did not come up with much. I do have a couple of the DMT blocks but only in the coarse grade and 6" is the largest. I might just look into that route:thumbup:

Mike

I like the ceramics a lot, HD Street Glide, but, on occasion, I'll also use a Norton 1000/4000 combo and a separate Norton 8000 waterstone in place of the ceramics. Mainly I use them (waterstones) because I have them and not that they do a better job, IMO. I just prefer the no mess, easy cleaning properties of the ceramic and diamond products; that leaves me free to sharpen outside my shop, while watching TV, and not get the 'too evil eye' from my bride of thirty years...

FWIW, the Norton products do put a scary edge on most steels. And as another poster said, HoB, I, too, wrap them in saran wrap (he uses aluminum foil) between uses to prevent mold and retain moisture which equates to short soak times...


DISCLAIMER: The preceding personal opinions are just that -- opinions. They were derived through study & reading, from conversations with other firearm enthusiasts, and by finalizing my own experiences regarding the subject at hand; the comments are not intended as a slight against any other opinion/opinions from forum members or administrators...

COLTM1911A1

 

[HD Street Glide]

Thanks for all of the helpful ideas, very much appreciated. I think that I will definitely give the waterstones a shot and probably pick up a larger xtra coarse DMT.
I was torn between sticking with the more traditional way of sharpening by hand and the sharpening systems. From some of the reviews that I have read on the 2 systems that seem the most popular they really put on a nice edge.
That just might be on my need to get list very soon. I guess that for right now I am still more of a traditionalist when it comes to stuff like sharpening and hunting.

Also thanks for the input on the oil stones, I had not realized that with the newer harder steels that those Arkansas stones would run into some trouble. Although they sure do look pretty when you have a nice set of those natural stones. I was just glad to find this out before I placed my order.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[Dog of War]

FWIW oil stones -- both natural stones like Arkansas (novaculite) and India (aluminum oxide) for example -- continue to be popular especially with people who like non-stainless carbon steel knives and tools. Carbon steel, lacking the hard carbide content of many stainless steels, is generally easy to sharpen on oil stones, and the oil serves to limit rust on the freshly-sharpened edge. Last I knew, many of the top American Bladesmith guys preferred fine or medium India stones used with a light oil, and they certainly get plenty of performance from their knives in their regular competitions.

Personally, while I still use oil stones regularly and like the quality of an edge produced by a good India stone, I'm not religious about it, and use other sharpening media as well, preferring diamond stones for quick removal of metal on very hard or high carbide content steels, and ceramic for finish sharpening and touch-ups. Most blade enthusiasts seem to eventually wind up with a pretty wide selection of different stones and sharpening accessories. They all seem to work, some better than others depending on the blade and the job to be done, and so long as you like the results you get, there's nothing wrong with just going with your personal preference.

 

[HD Street Glide]

Thanks Dog,

I am just about to order a new Emerson CQC12, it is going to be used as my everyday carry knife. Are you at all familiar with this type of Would they work okay with this knife? My others are just my hunting and fillet knives along with our household knives. I kind of like the longevity of the naturals.

I like your tag line, my Son in law has been over there for the past 6 months and is due back here next week for a brief stay. I am sure he is going to have some stories. Hopefully it will warm up a little before then we are well below zero, it is going to be pretty brutal for him!!

Mike

 

[Dog of War]

Thanks Dog,

I am just about to order a new Emerson CQC12, it is going to be used as my everyday carry knife. Are you at all familiar with this type of Would they work okay with this knife? My others are just my hunting and fillet knives along with our household knives. I kind of like the longevity of the naturals.

You're welcome, Mike. Lot of guys here more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, but that never stops me from sharing my two cents.

It looks like your Emerson is going to be 154CM, which has a pretty high carbide content ... however 154CM doesn't contain any vanadium, which produces some of the hardest carbides, so you should be able to sharpen it OK, maybe a little slow, on an India stone, and the gray silicon carbide stones should handle it with no problem. IMO 154CM might be a bit too much for Arkansas stones, though I've never tried it. Of course a good diamond stone, like this $20 DMT Diasharp for example, would handle it no problem and is probably what I'd prefer.

I like your tag line, my Son in law has been over there for the past 6 months and is due back here next week for a brief stay. I am sure he is going to have some stories. Hopefully it will warm up a little before then we are well below zero, it is going to be pretty brutal for him!!

Wouldn't be surprised if some of that Minnesota winter doesn't feel refreshing after 6 months in the sandbox. But please tell him, I salute him and his fellow soldiers. I'm thankful everyday that we haven't had a follow-up strike on US soil since 9/11, and feel we all owe a great debt of gratitude to our brave troops who've engaged the enemy in their backyard, and kept the fight over there.

Stay sharp, and warm, Mike.