What determines tip up or tip down?

TAH

TAH

Joined
Jul 3, 2001
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If a knife is not drilled for both, how does Spyderco determine if a knife will be tip up or tip down? For example the Para - why was this model set up for tip down carry only? From what I've read, it seems like most people prefer tip up.

I'm fine with tip down so I guess I'm just curious.
 
I don't know why they configured it for tip down only carry. That is an odd one, but if you call them (get their number off the website) they will tell you. Spyderco are good people always willing to answer questions. As for the "why do many prefer the tip up carry option" question, when you are deploying your knife in a speedy manner, the tip-up option eliminates one movement from your draw to presentation. When you grab it in your pocket from a tip-up position, your thumb is already starting to open the blade as it is exiting your pocket instead of having to re orient the knife to deploy the blade...milliseconds count:D
 
Can't trust a ball detent to hold a blade closed. Personally, I don't like knives that are liner/frame/compression with only tip up carry, except for my LCC, which sees next to no pocket time and came with a belt sheath.
 
big,

Milliseconds huh? I guess that's why I don't mind tip down. I'm never in that much of a hurry to deploy a blade. I prefer to take my time and fondle the knife as I'm opening it. :D

hard,

I had a feeling it had to do with the ball detent.

Thanks! :thumbup:
 
The Para doesn't have a ball detent. It stays close by the compression liner falling in a slot, milled out in the tang. I think it's much less prone to wear than a ball detent. It also makes the comp lock entirely a Spyderco design, with a ball detent it would stil be partially a Walker design. Most of all it is a simple and effective sollution, complementing the compression lock in its ingenuity.
 
I love framelocks and tip up carry. You DO bring up a good question as to HOW Spyderco determines whether or not a knife is going to be tip up or down.
 
So, if there is no ball detent, any idea on why tip down was chosen for the Para? Does the "liner falling in a slot" hold better than a ball detent?
 
Interestingly, the Military, with its liner lock, is tip down carry only as well. Hmmm?
 
I would not have a problem to trust my Para if it was a tip up carry knife. I think the Para got the clip like this to emphasize the similarity with the Millie. I'm not sure offcourse, it's just a thought. And ultimatly a tip downer is allways safe, might be something to consider when you supply the forces.
 
My para has is probably the only knife I own that I would have a problem with carrying tip up....I think the design's cool, and it really (honestly) doesn't bother me, but the blade "falls" out on my para easier than any other knife I own.

I have two liner locks, both CRKTs, with ball detents, and they hold the blade shut better than ANY other knife I've ever used except for balisongs. The M16 has too much ball detent even...you simply can't use the thumbstuds, it's got to be all flipper. Of course, why you'd use thumbstuds when you had a flipper, I know not.

The axis locks and lockbacks work pretty well and don't worry me to be carried tip up.

I think the concern of a knife opening in your pocket is a bigger deal than people make it out to be...I use my watch pocket, so there's no way the blade's going to open much. The only time I've been surprised is with my Spyderfly which came with a defective latch. It's wayyy too big for the watch pocket, so I carried it in a normal pocket and it came undone. Very unsafe latch.

I have two ball bearing spydercos arriving today, so I can't wait to see how those perform.

I do have a slight tip up preference.
 
I guess with the Para's curved clip, interchangable tip up or tip down carry isn't an option.

Also, mine has a tight close, so no problem there. :thumbup:
 
Perhaps percentage-wise, the concern about tip-up blades opening in your pocket is exaggerated -- until it happens to you (had one open on me in my pocket 2 years ago; didn't require stitches, but punctured my fingertip enough that I was wearing bandaids for 2 weeks, and had to relegate that pair of pants to weekend work-at-home duty because of the blood).

Tip-down for me from now on, if at all possible.
 
Tucked against the seam of the pocket. I had a Dodo that I carried this way and no problems.

However, one day I swapped pockets and went digging for change, the Dodo was paritally open and I got a nasty bite from it (there's sharp, then there's Spyderco sharp!).

So if it's tip-up for me it needs to be tucked into the seam. I've got a Cuda Maxx 5.5 converted to tip-up and I would never consider carrying it "un-tucked" (insert shudder here).
 
If I remember right: Back in the old days, the steel handles were tip down, and Spyderco went to tip-up only for the zytel/FRN models, for engineering reasons: couldn't put those original integral FRN clips on the pivot end. But the Spyderco default was tip-down. Many users actually found they preferred tip-up, though, so Spyderco couldn't keep just tip-down for everything but zytel models.

These days, I'd imagine that for collaborations, the designer chooses. Otherwise, I dunno, though if it were me, I'd usually default to tip-down for ball-detent models, tip-up for models that provide closing pressure with a spring.

I like tip-up better, not for speed, but because in a stressful situation, tip-up is more secure. In tip-up draw, I have all my fingers on the knife at all time; in tip-down, there is always a pinch-grip involved, unless the pivot is so loose that I can just wrist-flick it open.

Joe
 
The Para-Military was designed for the "spyderdrop", which is a technique to use the opening hole and kind of drop flip the body of the knife opened so it comes out very fast and sits just where you need it. That was the idea anyway.

Based on my own observations it seems to me the longer folders like the Para-Military and the Military are better off being tip down. You have to reposition your hand on them to get it where you want anyway when it is set up for tip up carry. I know I've set some up for tip up and then put them back because of this.

I can't explain the tip down carry on the smaller knives. On knives the size of the Calypso Jr. it works way better tip up at least to me. Your hand is right where you want it with no thinking or repositioning, and you can use a lanyard and not worry about it bulking up your pocket like it would for tip down carry.

Also, on many knives tip up is simply better to keep from scraping your knuckles on the non sharpened serrations of the blade or the tang sticking up where it can get you as you reach in your pocket for something other than your knife.

As for what determines the mode of carry. I think it all boils down to what the designer or maker is used to or prefers most of the time.

STR
 
The "Spyderdrop" technique is interesting. I've never tried it, but it makes sense. If the Military and Paramilitary were indeed designed for military use, it would seem that Spyderco would design them for quick deployment.
 
I don't usually open with a spyderdrop (though I do sometimes), but I do draw with the spyderhole often...the oversized hole is far superior to the convetional one.

That's with my para, of course.
 
My first thought was because it was a Compression Lock model. As mentioned before they tend to have less resistance to opening.

The Lil Temp is set for 4-way clip carry and it seems that most people carry it tip-up. Neither the Para or Lil T are the integral compression lock, they each have dual liners. The Lil T does not seem to have large problems of opening in pocket.

I can't come up with a good reason why it's not 4-way clip carry on all new models. I really don't know why on certain models like the Para not to allow even lefty carry, that seems like burning an unnecessary bridge to me. I don't really know the research behind it, but it seems like nothing is just thrown together from Spyderco and there may be at least a little logic behind the moves.
 
Good insight and, some well founded opinions. In short a very good thread this is.

Sorry to sound naive but, can someone tell me about this "Lil Temp" knife? I can't find it in the current Spyderco catalogue. Is it a discontinued model?
 
rnhood said:
Good insight and, some well founded opinions. In short a very good thread this is.

Sorry to sound naive but, can someone tell me about this "Lil Temp" knife? I can't find it in the current Spyderco catalogue. Is it a discontinued model?
Click to expand...

It was recently discontinued to undergo some sort of rebirth later on, but it sounds like it will be not as solid as the old one (old one was g-10 with liners, there is some talk of the new being linerless with FRN), but no pictures out on it yet.

You can see the discontinued one here: http://www.newgraham.com/liltemp.htm

It came in both a leaf blade and a trailing point.
 
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