What do you want in hawk design & materal

[SLOW2RUN]

Could the members/posters, list what they want, need ,or want changed in manufactured Hawks and what tasks you use them for? Hopefully this thread will help them giving us, the customer a better product , also try to give costs you expect to pay for these improvements .

 

[Wolf_1989]

1 - it would be nice if the standard handle length was 23" instead of the diminutive 16" - 19" most makers provide. If the handle is too long for your preference, it's a lot easier to saw a bit of the handle off instead of carving an entirely new longer one to replace it.

2 - I'd like to see more of the old patterns return, such as the Missouri War Axe or the Spontoon style. Good repros of these seem to be scarce.


I use mine for much of what the originals were used for. The tomahawk isn't just a weapon, it's also a great multipurpose tool for the backwoods.

 

[GUN SNOB]

1 - it would be nice if the standard handle length was 23" instead of the diminutive 16" - 19" most makers provide. If the handle is too long for your preference, it's a lot easier to saw a bit of the handle off instead of carving an entirely new longer one to replace it.

I second all that.

This Idea that a tac. hawk must be short so it is "jumpable" is pure BS. I jumped a M-16 with M203 more times than I care to count and survived all of them.So as long as a hawk is less than + 40 inches whats the problem?????? or dose it just sound cool?

2 - I'd like to see more of the old patterns return, such as the Missouri War Axe or the Spontoon style. Good repros of these seem to be scarce.

Ya with longer handles.

 

[Wolf_1989]

Yeah GunSnob, but that's the thing; not all of us are paratroopers or members of a SWAT team or that sort of thing. Those makers going with the current Tacticool Trend are forgetting us traditionalists. Even if I were in the military, I'd still rather have a traditional 'hawk.

My approach to the tomahawk is, I see it as:

- the halfway point between a hatchet and full sized axe

- which is not only a useful tool, but also a 'backwoods battle-axe'

I've experimented with handle lengths for many years and found that if the handle is too long, I can still deal with it, but if it's too short, the tomahawk is virtually worthless as anything other than a lightweight stubby hatchet.

Depending on the weight of the head, I find a length of about 21" - 24" is about right. Plenty of reach and leverage, but not so long as to be awkward. Plus if you're in a tight space you can always grip the handle right below the head and punch with it.

 

[SLOW2RUN]

I have two question , why no case harden hawk heads, as on some long and short guns? I love the mix of colors that case hardening give you.

Also why no brush/vine cutter on the hawk, that lets you reach out grab the vine with you hawk, catching it on an edged notch or half moon or beard, that is cut into the hawk head below its eye and edge ( beard ) handle/haft ,you just need to pull back on the hawk cutting the vine or body parts of an attacker, this notch would be a utility advancement for the hawk.( in my opinion) Or Just tell your hawk maker to sharpen its beard.

 

[SLOW2RUN]

1 - it would be nice if the standard handle length was 23" instead of the diminutive 16" - 19" most makers provide. If the handle is too long for your preference, it's a lot easier to saw a bit of the handle off instead of carving an entirely new longer one to replace it.

2 - I'd like to see more of the old patterns return, such as the Missouri War Axe or the Spontoon style. Good repros of these seem to be scarce.


I use mine for much of what the originals were used for. The tomahawk isn't just a weapon, it's also a great multipurpose tool for the backwoods.

Wolf, could you post pictures of those hawks for others to study ?

 

[Wolf_1989]

Wolf, could you post pictures of those hawks for others to study ?

Missouri War Axe:

Spontoon Tomahawk:

 

[PayetteRucker]

I'm not a huge fan of swept spikes- I like them short and straight instead of these rediculous rat tails many have. I see three main uses for tomahawks-camp/trail utility, hand-to-hand fighting, and throwing. For camp utility and throwing I look for a good wide blade with a swept belly, yet durable corners, 19 inch haft for ease of chopping and just enough leverage for throwing. Balance is huge. All tomahawks should be light, precise and responsive. Good soft high carbon steel that tapers to an easily maintained knife edge. Sufficient material between the eye and the blade, many hawks come to a tiny half inch portion of steel between the two and it doesn't really instill alot of trust. For hand to hand fighters, a 23-24 inch haft with a sharpened belly and practical poll or straight spike that doesn't throw off the balance. I like teardrop indexed hafts for all of the above, so I know the blade is oriented exactly where I'm swinging. The tomahawk is such a practical tool with so many uses it's hard to get more specific than that.

 

[Wolf_1989]

Out of my collection, I consider this as close to perfection as I've found:

23.25" handle, 3.75" cutting edge

No spike, no hammer poll, just graceful simplicity. Very light and quick with just the right amount of length.

 

[SLOW2RUN]

Out of my collection, I consider this as close to perfection as I've found:

23.25" handle, 3.75" cutting edge

No spike, no hammer poll, just graceful simplicity. Very light and quick with just the right amount of length.

Wolf is that your Fort turner hawk?

 

[Wolf_1989]

Wolf is that your Fort turner hawk?

Yes it is.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Could the members/posters, list what they want, need ,or want changed in manufactured Hawks and what tasks use them for?

I have close to my ideal. I got a custom Ft Turner hawk. Basically, picture Wolf_1989's Iroquois hawk, but with only 3.25" of edge (less sweep, stronger, more squared-off corner), an inch of the beard sharpened. The rest of the beard sweeping into the sharpened area (so that if you hook something (say a knee), depending on the angle you hold the hawk at, you can either hook, or drag the beard to get a good, running cut on the tendon. Then add one of Dana Turner's rectangular low-profile hammer polls to it.

The hammer poll adds some weight, so the longer edge penetrates well, the hammer also tracks well when swinging it hammer first sue to the trailing mass of the bit, and it's large, rectangular profile, and the fact that it doesn't stick out much from the eye make it great for utility hammering, or if you want to brain someone without the bit or hammer face burying itself in the bad guy's head.

Only three gripes:
1.) he uses a tear-drop shaped eye, I prefer a oval shape.
2.) he only has 19" hafts available

Both of these are easily solved since the eye is slightly smaller than a Cold Steel 30"haft, so I can shave it down just enough to get the head on, but not have to make it a teardrop shape.

3.) I'd prefer a hawk made of 5160

 

[dan-g]

Alright nice thread,

My favorite is a hawk with a hammer, i would reall love it if someone would make fiberglass/composite handles that you can cut to fit and exoxy if you want to or not. Also a steel eylit type lanyard at the bottom of the handle. I paracord wrap my handles and create a lanyand location at the top of the wrap. I aslo only buy hawks with the inward hook of the hawk shardened for hooking attacks, that bieng said I onlu use my hawks for building small shelters and minor deliming for firewood. They also work very well for seperating any animal carcass. The hammer work well around camp and is my main force multiplier used on my knife.

I could use my hawk as a weapon and I do ocasionaly fantisize about it but the reality is I would shoot someone in that sernario before even thinking about the hawk.

 

[GUN SNOB]

Yeah GunSnob, but that's the thing; not all of us are paratroopers or members of a SWAT team or that sort of thing. Those makers going with the current Tacticool Trend are forgetting us traditionalists. Even if I were in the military, I'd still rather have a traditional 'hawk.

Yes. I have not jumped out of any planes for quite awhile but in the day I would of preferred a traditional hawk for the job over a pocket Axe.

I have no problem with modern materials for handles and machined heads as apposed to forged, but I don't see why the new breed of hawk are all the size of a pocket Axe and marketed as combat tools. Maybe its the constant need to re invent the wheel? I get the idea that a shorter handle makes for a tighter, quicker swinging arc but so dose chocking up on the handle.

I've experimented with handle lengths for many years and found that if the handle is too long, I can still deal with it, but if it's too short, the tomahawk is virtually worthless as anything other than a lightweight stubby hatchet.

I just picked up a CQCT and a VTAC and think both would be much better gear if the handles were at least 19 inches. (I would sell them at 26 and let the end user cut to length. If you can't run a hacksaw you probably don't need to be swinging a hawk) I have a Hays with a 14 inch handle that has the same problem. (Now I'm on Vector's wish list for custom handles for the 3 of them as soon as he gets cough up.) The CQCT and the Hays will cut/slice like a knife but with the short handles it is hard to get any real power behind them as a chopper. Think K-bar against a Battle Mistress.

My #1 go to is a Bear Mt Minuet man. Weight to cutting edge to sharpness to power is a nice balance and looks good doing it. When the handle breaks I will probably try a little longer, its a factory 19 inch now and I'm thinking 24-26 ish would be real sweet.

I like a rifleman's weight for throwing but prefer the old Plainsman (?) (poll bobbed) as a tool. I really don't see the need for a poll unless I need to break rocks. I don't carry nails in the woods and have a hammer at the house. As a weapon the back strap will hit plenty hard and with out the poll I can grip the head for cutting work more comfortably.

I replaced the CS with a set of Shawnee throwers from HB when a co-worker wanted a cheep set of throwers for him and his Boy. There lighter than the RM but I have grown to really appreciate the forging marks and US made to boot with out the twisted bits and soft spots I found in some CS heads. Not bad mouthing CS just a personal preference. Now my throwers Dbl as tools.

I am playing with a few spiked heads right now but I'm sort of so-so about what the spike brings to the table. As a tool or a weapon I'm not really for or against right now. The pros and cons sort of balance out to an even "Ya, OK." I like the wider blade style of spike over the boarding Axe/rat tail spike I see a lot of. The extra blade surface seems more useful than a pokie thing.

I would like to see some small heads on 36+ inch handles. Like the Tops Hawk-in stick but more traditional/less Sog Fusion. I have a Craig Barr Hawk head that I'm thinking will work well for this if I ever get a round to it.

 

[aleyn1975]

Longer, composite handles, at least 24 inches. STOP putting out stainless steel heads and give us more medium carbon (5160) durable heat treat heads with teardrop eyeholes.

 

[Kentucky]

I can tell you the reason for mostly 19" hafts...Thats what all the pre-made blanks are Anything longer and they have to be hand made one at a time..Or special ordered from a woodworker....Both of which add cost, cost that most folks are already hesitant to pay..

 

[aleyn1975]

Also, finding 24 inches of straight grain in wood is more difficult than finding 24 inches. Hence, the benefits of a composite handle.

 

[Burningcort]

Alright nice thread,

My favorite is a hawk with a hammer, i would reall love it if someone would make fiberglass/composite handles that you can cut to fit and exoxy if you want to or not. Also a steel eylit type lanyard at the bottom of the handle. I paracord wrap my handles and create a lanyand location at the top of the wrap. I aslo only buy hawks with the inward hook of the hawk shardened for hooking attacks, that bieng said I onlu use my hawks for building small shelters and minor deliming for firewood. They also work very well for seperating any animal carcass. The hammer work well around camp and is my main force multiplier used on my knife.

I could use my hawk as a weapon and I do ocasionaly fantisize about it but the reality is I would shoot someone in that sernario before even thinking about the hawk.

Cold Steel already makes stuff out of the poly-ur-than-acrap (cant remember how to spell it)....I wish they would offer replacement handles in different lengths for their hawks...and spears....

 

[Burningcort]

I have two question , why no case harden hawk heads, as on some long and short guns? I love the mix of colors that case hardening give you.

Also why no brush/vine cutter on the hawk, that lets you reach out grab the vine with you hawk, catching it on an edged notch or half moon, that is cut into the hawk head below its handle ,you just need to pull back on the hawk cutting the vine or body parts of an attacker, this notch would be a utility advancement for the hawk.( in my opinion)

case hardening only harden the first .003-.007 or so depending on a few variables....I love to make case hardened impact weapons...but not so much for bladed items...
a nice case hardend war hammer of mace would be cool...

 

[SLOW2RUN]

case hardening only harden the first .003-.007 or so depending on a few variables....I love to make case hardened impact weapons...but not so much for bladed items...
a nice case hardend war hammer of mace would be cool...

For those who want more info on color case-harden finishing ma want to go here, look under www.gunreports.com look under special reports :case Harding with kesenit. www.runniron.com, look under finishes .and www.finishing.com .The process uses bone and leather and heat, guess who use it first ?