Where Has Mad Dog Gone?

Joined
Mar 8, 2001
Messages
73
A couple of years ago, when I first got into knives, like really into them, spending enough money for a down payment on a car on one knife, Mad-Dog knives where all the rage, you could not ask a question about these knives without setting of a flame war, now I read nothing of their adventures, I know they are over on www.tacticalforums.com but they used to get alot of coverage over this side too. What happened, flash in the pan syndrome or has things just cooled down. Their forum does not seem to be too busy either for that matter.

P.s. Which is better, Mad Dog or Busse???:eek: :eek: :eek: JUST TEASING, RELAX!!!;) ;) ;)
 
Mad Dogs are rarely spoken about because not too many of us knifenuts can afford them. IMHO Mad Dog priced themselves out. Today you can get high quality for lower prices.
 
Do a search,should come up with threads about Mad Dog knives. some of the longest threads ever made :)

edited to ad
I also agree that they are overpriced for what you actually get.I'm not downing the quality,but I can't really see what is so special considering the materials.I admit they have a heck of a following,but I do believe hype has alot to do with it,but what do I know.I really think you can get a better knife at half the price.I have never actually owned or tested one,so take my opinion as that an opinion based on information that is available on-line,no more no less.
 
Boy, talk about memories! Kevin, (Mad Dog), was the forerunner and KING in the early days, (long before BF existed), of makers like the popular "gurus" of today are, like Mayo, Blackwood and others. He was and is, a real talent and he was cocky as hell but really, he was fair and as a plus, supported our troops in the military. He was the "Mayo", (it wasn't his fault, people paid more than his knives were worth!), of his day and made knives every bit as good but his temperament sometimes got into his way and he loved his ass kissed just like we all do! In the end, he became unpopular because of this, (though he's still very popular in some circles). His knives are still in demand and command, (on some models), premium prices, even today. In the end, I think Kevin has every bit as much honesty and integrity than the "gurus" of today have!
 
I wouldn't attempt to describe the flame war that preceded Mad Dog's departure.
He kinda went from Guru to Goat.

Personally, I like his knives.
I don't consider them over-priced.
However, I wish he wouldn't hard chrome them.
I suppose if I had the bucks and wanted one he'd make one without the hard chrome - or maybe he wouldn't. :)

John Greco has a proprietary clear finish that lets the user see the condition of the steel under the finish.
I like that better.
 
Maddog knies always made for interesting and sometimes heated posts. I think you dont read about them here anymore because people finally got tired of asking questions and getting stupid replies. Toward the end of their mention here on BF, people would come and ask normal and reasonable questions looking for info about Maddog knives. Instead of getting answers, the threads would be filled with a dozen or so folks saying "Oh, he mentioned Maddog, get your flame retardent suit on", and "Oh wow, get the popcorn and watch the fight"...of course these were always posted like the person thought they were the first to come up with this bit of humor and it basically killed the threads. After a while you get tired of asking and getting no help.
 
Mad Dog's backlog is longer than ever, and there are still only 24 hours in the day for him to grind in. That's with no knife shows, and no ads. For the most part, his clientele run in different circles.
 
Steve hit the nail on the head.
As much as I have butted heads with MD in the past, he builds a fine HANDMADE knife that is far and away better in almost every respect than the current fads,,I mean favorites...of the tactical knife world.

MD's are hand ground, hand finished, hand hafted and have hand-made sheaths.

Alll for under $400.

Compare that to some others and you will see why he doesnt need the press on this forum.
 
Did they ever resolve if defective knives where notched or not and who stole and later sold the defective ones? ;)
 
Most Mad Dog knives are over and some are way over $400.00. I really like most of his big knives. I would prefer that they not be hard chromed as well.

People should be able to discuss these knives just like any other, but it always seems that any mention of Mad Dog and the thread immediately turns into a discussion of the old flame wars.
 
I was considering getting some maddog knives. Didn't take the plunge because it was impossible to get any empirical evidence as to the viability of the technology and engineering applied.

I really like the handles and the blade designs. Simple, clean and efficient.

However, I was more interested in getting some info about the chrome plating, and the handle junction.

All I was able to get as emprical scientific evidence to justify the use of certain materials from mdenterprise.com went sort of like this:

"It is the best handmade knife in the world. If it wasn't, we wouldn't sell them."

followed by:

"There is an 18 month wait for any design that you want, if you order it today."

Now I am not saying that the knives are no good. I am saying that information about the knives seem to be no good.

So, I look out for some aftermarket ones so that I can see for myself what the hype is about. I have found that the ones that are priced reasonably get snatched up very quickly. The others that are sold at a premium remain currently available on the sale/trade forums.

I have spoken to members who are loyal to competitor makers and of course the opinion is that MD knives are deficient in one way or the other.

Funny, the only person who tested the knives was Cliff Stamp and Mike Turber. But these examinations resulted in 2 broken knives, followed by claims of fraud, stolen knives, etc.

Not satisfied with what the BF archives, and third party opinions had to offer, I put all these inquiries to the "Mad Dog" himself, Kevin McClung via email in an attempt quell my worries. However, instead of scientific evidence, I recieved a statement like "Cliff is the only one to have ever broken one of my knives. I stand by my record."

While this may be true, it still doesn't address the issues directly.

So, like many others, I sit and wait for better information.

If there was some clarity to this debacle, I am sure that MD's backlog would be 5 years long like Randall knives and Wally Hayes.

I would be interested in the Panther, the ATAK line and the Voodoo line.
 
Hey,
Cliff has broken Striders, Beckers, Busse's, HI Kukuri's

Cliff has broken anything.

Anything can be broken!

MD Knives will perform like ANY OTHER PROPERLY HEAT TREATED 0-1 knife. Which is pretty darn good for most uses.

I think INFI steel is better steel.
I think Mad Dog makes better knives.

I doubt there will be a collaboration anytime soon.
 
What really struck me about this thread is that some of you don't like the Hardchrome finish on Kevs blades.
Really kinda curious as to why?
My thinking is that it is one of the toughest coatings to be had next to Boron like Striders stuff.
OL Allen Blade (Yeah don't shoot me for bringing up his name) used Crib Safe Laquer on his bead blast blades no one seemed to mind.
TOPS has a good coating and it is the same coating used under the bottom of Artic cat snowmobiles.
 
MD was a fad of sorts, and that fad has moved from him to Striders, Emersons, etc...It's all cyclic. When the next "maker of the month" comes along, many people will jump on board.

Way back when, though, it was getting VERY "HOT" here.

Tactical Forums has some good info, sometimes, but it's a very close-knit group that doesn't like dissenting opinions.

--dan
 
Robert, I just don't like any kind of coating very much. I prefer the look of steel and find that with proper care a coating isn't needed.
 
Of course any knife is breakable if you try hard enough. But that wasn't the point. Here is what the big deal was all about.

The questions that were raised, and opinions made are about 4 topics:

Hard chrome:
Does hard chrome actually protect the blade from rust and corrosion. There is no definitive test to prove it one way or the other. But there are strong dissenting opinions.

Differential Blade Temper:
63RC at the edge and 58RC at the spine. Does this yield a tough and sharp blade or a brittle and sharp blade. Again, no concrete evidence one way or the other ------except the 2 broken TUSKS ------which were later discounted by the maker as defective --------on and on and on...

Tang handle juncture / tang shape:
Will the blade just slip out from the handle if something were to make its way under the hardchrome (like rust) and corrode the tang where it met the handle. The tang shape does not facilitate any retention if the glue were to fail.

Warranty Issues that discourages independent third party testing:
Will not extend warranty to anyone but original owner. Will decide what is covered upon examination. Will make claims to knife resilliance in abusive non-knife tasks. However, will not warrant against buyer reproduction of same test - however controlled and monitored.

These are the topics of contention in the "MAD DOG WARS". It ended with Mad Dog and company packing up and starting Tacticalforums.com.

To this day, none of these issues have been addressed.

Mad Dog makes a beautiful knife. But at this point, one must invest in heavily for a MD knife and, absent any unbiased scientific destruction testing, hope that it lives up to it's claim.

I am not for or against, but I do as much homework as I can before plopping down my dough. The current information does not put MDK in a favorable light. However, it is a testament to his skill as a maker that he still commands hefty price and has an 18 month backlog. But it is not evidence for or against any of the top three topics in one way or the other.

In the end, if you are new to MDK (like I am) - you have nothing to go on but the faith that what one group says is true and the other group is wrong.

Maybe when I am rich, I will gamble and toss $450-$2000 + 18 mos waiting just to see. Right now, it is not an intelligent option for me. But that's just me.
 
Sunsdvall, Why should Kevin respond to all your detailed questions. You're only one potential buyer and he has an 18 month backlog. Your questions and their context are somewhat inflammatory, I think any maker would ignore them to some extent. YOu can answer them yourself. Kevin has in the past posted Navy tests of his hardchrome on his website. Tests from some magazine article. Many sources can give you information about the usefulness of differential tempering. I believe he had a govt. contract, thus you can be sure he meets Mil Spec. Look at any old beat up MD knife at a knife or gun show, and you'll know the handle ain't going to fall off anytime soon. If I was Kevin, I'd probably respond to your questions in a similar or maybe even less polite manner. Not every customer is right... and with an 18 month backlog, any business can pick their clients. By the way, Randall is 24-36 months for orders, but you can buy a Randall any day from one of their distributers (e.g. AG Russell).
 
I disagree about Mad Dog knives being a fad. Maybe among collectors but not among users.
Have you ever heard of one of the handles falling off due to rust getting under the hard chrome? Neither has anyone else because it hasnt happened. Cliff Stamp purposely set out to break one. Why? Who cares?
Compared to some knives out there today of equal or lesser quality, they are not too expensive. Not for a tool you depend on.
A few years ago I was as anti-Mad Dog as a person can be. That was because I had false information about certain events that had happened which was made worse by emails I received from a certain vip for a certain knife company. The info I had was wrong and the email info was either just wrong or an out and out lie to turn me against the knives. A certain gentleman from S.Africa named Aubrey straightened me out, gave me the true story, and I came to find out they are great knives and that Kevin and Teryl are exceptionally nice people.
Hey, to each his own. Choose the one you like but remember, they didnt win that Navy competition by accident.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe
Sunsdvall, Why should Kevin respond to all your detailed questions. You're only one potential buyer and he has an 18 month backlog. Your questions and their context are somewhat inflammatory, I think any maker would ignore them to some extent. YOu can answer them yourself. Kevin has in the past posted Navy tests of his hardchrome on his website. Tests from some magazine article. Many sources can give you information about the usefulness of differential tempering. I believe he had a govt. contract, thus you can be sure he meets Mil Spec. Look at any old beat up MD knife at a knife or gun show, and you'll know the handle ain't going to fall off anytime soon. If I was Kevin, I'd probably respond to your questions in a similar or maybe even less polite manner. Not every customer is right... and with an 18 month backlog, any business can pick their clients. By the way, Randall is 24-36 months for orders, but you can buy a Randall any day from one of their distributers (e.g. AG Russell).

Hey Brownshoe,

Why should Mad Dog answer my question? To make a buyer out of me. Why? Because one happy buyer tells all his friends. One unhappy buyer tells EVERYONE.

So, I would say that I, as are you, am a bit more than - just one person - as far as market forces are concerned.

I routinely talk about design issues and material choices with makers. None of them get upset when I address the negatives. Examples like: Talonite is not so tough. 440C doesn't hold an edge as well. S30V is tough to field sharpen. Damascus is expensive. Cordwrap handles are harder to clean, etc. To date, none of them has told me that it's everything is good because no one complained. Which, of course, is a logical fallacy.

I think you are taking the questions in the wrong context. While these obstacles to purchase may or may not have been designed to discredit MDK, they are barriers to new buyers. We don't know any better, and have nothing else to go on - short of buying.

In other words, these are not personal attacks. They are questions about the veracity of the design and engineering that went into the production of the current offerings.

So when you jump into this mode with the "...If I was Kevin, I'd probably respond to your questions in a similar or maybe even less polite manner. Not every customer is right... and with an 18 month backlog, any business can pick their clients... ".

I don't have to be right, I just have to be, not wrong. I am coming from this point of view - "If I don't pay, I can't lose."

Again, it's true, he's doing just fine without me. If that is what he want's to do, it's his preogative. I still have my money, he still has his knife.

My questions to Kevin were posed in a very honest and non-inflammatory way - the way a potential customer would. Kevin recieved it in that light and answered the way he did. I went away, without any better info, but accepted it - and did not buy.

So, why are you so offended?
 
As far as the handles go on Mad dogs they arent coming off unless purposely broken off.I believe they are secured by an epoxy bolt which besides being ingenious IMHO is for all intents and purposes as stong as tubing or pins.I love Mad dogs designs. He really cares and puts extra effort in to insure a quality product and his knives have the stongest resale value in 1000.00+ knives that Ive ever seen.
 
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