Which belt grinder for <$600?

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spydercobenchmadekai

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Sep 26, 2013
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The title says it all. $600 is really the all-out limit; I would like to keep it under $500 if possible. I already have a tiny Harbor Freight 1x30, so a 2 inch belt would be nice.

The perfect grinder for my needs would be 2x72, 2hp variable speed (220v ok), with 3 or 4 contact wheels and the option for hollow grinding. I believe that most of those options are impossible for under my limit, so what would be a good compromise?
 
For your budget I would look at the Grizzly and the Pheer. I used a grizzly for about a year and it is a decent machine. Being able to use the larger belts is a big advantage
 
You might be able to build a NoWeldGrinder or EERF on that budget if you can find deals on the materials and motor.
There seems to be a pretty large gulf between the cheapest entry level grinders (1x32/42s and 2x42Craftsman) at the under $200 level and the next level $1200+ entry level 2x72 grinders, with very little in between. I think the only grinders in the price range are the grizzly and Coote (you'd still have to get a motor for the coote.)
I personally moved very quickly from the 1x30HF to a Craftsman 2x42. I've made a deal with myself that if I continue making knives for an entire year then I'll buy myself 2x72, preferably one with variable drive. This also gives me plenty of time to save up. For what the CM costs (it was my xmas gift so it was free to me:) ) if it last one year then it will have been well worth it.
 
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I don't know your overall financial situation/income and all that, but unless you can pick up one of those Grizzlys used on the cheap, I would really hold off and try and bump that number up a bit. Work some side gigs, sell some knives, sell off old gear/stuff sitting around your house... do whatever is necessary. I sold off 90% of my old collection (as well as a bunch of other stuff) since I started knifemaking to afford tools, and I have zero regrets. You won't miss them when you're making even more awesome stuff.

The Grizzly will work for ya, sure. A lot of people make great knives on them... but a lot of people make great knives on those HF1x30s as well. With the Grizzly, much like your HF1x30, you'll have one speed (fast), poor tracking, and not a whole lot of options... so you'll struggle with a lot of the same things (only when you make a mistake, it'll take a lot longer to fix :P). When the time comes that you inevitably want to upgrade from there, you'll just be another $600 away from your dream grinder.

If you really must upgrade now, you'll still probably be in heaven by comparison with the Grizzly... but from someone who has made his share of regrettable "step up" tool purchases, I would try and save up to put together an EERF, Pheer, KMG, etc. If you start selling knives, you'll quickly make that cost difference back in saved time, mistakes, heartaches, etc... and you'll be able to do so much more. And who knows, if you hold off and look around a bit, you may find someone's old EERF/etc for sale within your budget. I think I remember someone looking to sell theirs for $500 a couple of weeks ago...

Mike
 
Your best option, given the budget listed, would probably be to build a NWGS. You should be able to go to a local fab shop or scrap yard and get the required flat stock and tubing for less than $100. To get a flat platen set up, you'll need about $100 worth of wheels (for quality wheels), then you'll spent about $150 on a drive and idler, plus about $100 for a 3 step pulley and shaft setup. That gets you up to about $450, which leaves $150 or so for a motor. I payed about $80 for mine, used.

Now there's a little bit of wiggle room in the prices I listed, but I do think it's more than possible to build one for less than $600, and have a machine that's upgradeable and expandable in the future.
 
Has anyone ever tried combining a Porter-Cable (or similar) 8" variable speed bench grinder with one of the 2x48 Multitool adapters? I think you could put it together for about $400. Looks like you would be able to run down to about 3000sfpm up to 5400sfpm. Maybe a little fast on the low end but I think that is slower than the Grizzly.

http://www.trick-tools.com/Multitool_2_x_48_inch_Belt_Grinder_Attachment_MT48 2_307#.UvUIk3n1yHs

Bob

Edit: Found a video with the 36" multitool on a Craftsman Variable speed grinder.

[video=youtube;2VsrzX2z3eo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VsrzX2z3eo[/video]
 
I own a Coote, and you just can't beat that grinder for the price. You can get a machine with a 10in wheel for what you're willing to spend. Norm is awesome to deal with, and he has all kinds of neat attachments. He offers glass platens, and his new platen attachments are pretty sweet. With a couple turns of an allen wrench, his machine tilts back for access to the wheel. Its pretty versatile. Norm's quality is outstanding too.

Find yourself a decent table/grinder stand, a motor and some simple pulleys and you're set. Not real hard to set up. It's not exactly plug and play, but it's far less work and frustration than trying to hunt crap down and build the whole damn thing.

I will advise not to go the Craftsman 2x42, or Grizzly route. Those machines are extremely fast.

If you want to produce better quality work and not spend a whole lot of money - Coote all the way.
 
No one has mentioned Kalamazoo................

I got a 2 x 48 1hp Kalamazoo at a garage sale for $200. I didn't need another grinder at the time but I thought (and still think btw) that I can use parts of it to convert my Boyar Schultz 612 surface grinder to belts.

I'd check out Craigslist too.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
I'm contacting Coote. Does anyone know if their prices include a motor? I'm guessing not.

Or should I just cough up the dough (i.e. withdraw 1/5 of my savings) and get a KMG?
 
That's really good advice. :thumbup:


weebus said:
I don't know your overall financial situation/income and all that, but unless you can pick up one of those Grizzlys used on the cheap, I would really hold off and try and bump that number up a bit. Work some side gigs, sell some knives, sell off old gear/stuff sitting around your house... do whatever is necessary. I sold off 90% of my old collection (as well as a bunch of other stuff) since I started knifemaking to afford tools, and I have zero regrets. You won't miss them when you're making even more awesome stuff.
Mike
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I paid $850.00 shipped for a flat platen KMG which I think it a great deal! I had a motor already so that helped on price.
 
weebus said:
I don't know your overall financial situation/income and all that, but unless you can pick up one of those Grizzlys used on the cheap, I would really hold off and try and bump that number up a bit. Work some side gigs, sell some knives, sell off old gear/stuff sitting around your house... do whatever is necessary. I sold off 90% of my old collection (as well as a bunch of other stuff) since I started knifemaking to afford tools, and I have zero regrets. You won't miss them when you're making even more awesome stuff.

The Grizzly will work for ya, sure. A lot of people make great knives on them... but a lot of people make great knives on those HF1x30s as well. With the Grizzly, much like your HF1x30, you'll have one speed (fast), poor tracking, and not a whole lot of options... so you'll struggle with a lot of the same things (only when you make a mistake, it'll take a lot longer to fix :P). When the time comes that you inevitably want to upgrade from there, you'll just be another $600 away from your dream grinder.

If you really must upgrade now, you'll still probably be in heaven by comparison with the Grizzly... but from someone who has made his share of regrettable "step up" tool purchases, I would try and save up to put together an EERF, Pheer, KMG, etc. If you start selling knives, you'll quickly make that cost difference back in saved time, mistakes, heartaches, etc... and you'll be able to do so much more. And who knows, if you hold off and look around a bit, you may find someone's old EERF/etc for sale within your budget. I think I remember someone looking to sell theirs for $500 a couple of weeks ago...

Mike
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Wow--how do you find out about that kind of deal? Is there a "Tools for sale by members" sub forum? I don't remember seeing one.

knife to a gunfight said:
Your best option, given the budget listed, would probably be to build a NWGS. You should be able to go to a local fab shop or scrap yard and get the required flat stock and tubing for less than $100. To get a flat platen set up, you'll need about $100 worth of wheels (for quality wheels), then you'll spent about $150 on a drive and idler, plus about $100 for a 3 step pulley and shaft setup. That gets you up to about $450, which leaves $150 or so for a motor. I payed about $80 for mine, used.

Now there's a little bit of wiggle room in the prices I listed, but I do think it's more than possible to build one for less than $600, and have a machine that's upgradeable and expandable in the future.
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I've seen the No-Weld-Grinder parts and plans for sale. How does it preform?

My main argument against shelling out $1,000+ is value. I have noticed with production knives that the curve of value slows its climb very quickly once you get above a few hundred. Will a $1,500 KMG be $1,000 better than a $500 Kalamazoo, NWG, or Coote? And if I were to get one of the "nice" ones, would you recommend a KMG, Pheer, Burr King, Bader, or something else? They all seem to be very similar in both price and specs.
 
Save your money and buy a pheer. I am betting he would work with you and build a grinder that would fit your needs for about $900.
 
spydercobenchmadekai said:
Wow--how do you find out about that kind of deal? Is there a "Tools for sale by members" sub forum? I don't remember seeing one.



I've seen the No-Weld-Grinder parts and plans for sale. How does it preform?

My main argument against shelling out $1,000+ is value. I have noticed with production knives that the curve of value slows its climb very quickly once you get above a few hundred. Will a $1,500 KMG be $1,000 better than a $500 Kalamazoo, NWG, or Coote? And if I were to get one of the "nice" ones, would you recommend a KMG, Pheer, Burr King, Bader, or something else? They all seem to be very similar in both price and specs.
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Honestly, the biggest factor in how well your NWGS functions, is how well you put everything together. You want everything as rigid and and square and lined up as possible.

Now, as far as cost vs. value is concerned, a lot of that is definitely subjective. Theoretically, I can grind every bit as good of a knife on a well made NWGS as I could on a KMG, or a Hardcore, or a TW-90, etc...

That said, I've not personally heard of anyone wishing they had built two (or 3 or 4 or 5) NWGSs instead of buying a KMG or what have you.

When you buy a $1000+ grinder, you're paying for a couple of things:

1) SOMEBODY ELSE's shop time and materials cost (A hobbyist's shop time is always going to be cheaper than a professional machinisht's / manufacturer's shop and machine time; materials are often close enough to be a wash, IMO)

2) More often than not, you probably get a litte bit smoother of a machine that's generally of a little nicer quality than a home built NWGS.

3) Chances are good, you're getting a heavier duty, more ridgid machine.

4) You're getting basically a turn key machine that's nearly ready to go out of the box (which the exception of a little bit of assembly time with the KMG)

5) You get some customer support

Also, understand that your lower priced kalamazoo, grizzly, craftsman, etc... is going to essentially be a one trick pony, in the sense that you can't change out tooling arms, use a small wheel adapter, etc...

Part of the price ALSO factors into convenience and versatility, and even time savings that you're going to get out of the machine.

Which ever route you go, you should look at it as an investment that's going to pay you back, should you stick with knife making for the long haul.
Buy once, cry once.
 
You're getting some really good advice here. Particularly from Weebus and Knife to a...
Yes, the extra money is worth the difference between a Coote and a Bader.

With the Grizz, having two wheels in a vertical arrangement really limits some of the ways in which you'll be able to grind. It's not really possible to use any attachments with that machine, and it runs to fast. Plus, the motor is integral to the design so a slower motor or a variable setup cannot be retro fit. Hollow grinding on this machine sucks, as the motor gets in the way.

With the Coote you have the vertical/two wheel problem, although it's a little more versatile. It's still never going to be as versatile or easy to swap attachments as a rear wheel drive machine. You have the option of three speeds with it, or you could add a VFD/motor. Hollow grinding is better than the Grizz, as it's belt driven, but you'll be hollow grinding a bit low in relation to your body, and flat grinding a bit high if you mount the machine at a "compromise height." You can get used to pretty much anything I suppose, but why buy into an aching back willingly?

Kalamazoo is IMO very overpriced for the machine that you actually get. Sort of like the Square Wheel these days.

KMG is very good for the money. People love them and customer service is very good. My detraction is the belt drive, a little messy for me and the possibility of added vibration. Tracking is very good but not the absolute best.

Bader is also a great machine. Lots of people copy that rear-wheel direct drive, front tooling arm design because it's simple, solid, and convenient. The Bader III is a bit of a warhorse now, and you can probably get a similar machine for a bit better of a price than the Bader, new.

Pheer grinders work well, and it seems that Jose is improving the overall quality of his machines as well as the options available. There are also getting more expensive; what made them stand out for me initially was the lower price tag. Once they are in a price realm with the likes of KMG, they don't look quite as attractive.

Esteem grinders are of good quality and look like a good value, but above your price range.

Wilmont has a very attractive entry level grinder call the LB-1000. It's a bolt-together kit to make a platen grinder, rear-wheel drive tooling arm type, designed for direct drive using a c-face motor. The price right now is at $600 for the frame without wheels/motor. An additional $200 gets you the same, plus wheels. I'd look at that hard. You may have to wait until he builds another batch, though.

The EERF and GIB are great ideas, and very good machines depending on the quality of the build, and that's up to you. I'd say these are the cheapest ways to get into the rear wheel drive, tooling arm category of machines, which is my favorite. The simplicity of direct drive makes it easy to swap motors and eliminates a possible area of virbration. The three best, high priced grinders I can think of are all direct, rear wheel drive.

While you are over at Wilmont, check out the EERF. This is what I'd call a public service to beginning knifemakers. Particularly if you know someone with a CNC plasma cutter, this is a very good option if you like to build/scrounge. This, and the GIB kit, I reiterate, are I feel your best options at a good low cost expandable machine for a first grinder.

The bottom line IMO: You want a machine that can be added onto as you go. So, look for the ability to swap motors in if you get a VFD setup later. Look for the ability to use a range of attachments that can be bought as you can afford them. Look for something that won't limit you and become a waste of money in retrospect. That means build, or wait and save.
 
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I went from a 1x30 to a grizzly in a matter of weeks. I was extremely happy with the grizzly because it's a major step up from the HF, but it has a steep learning curve. The tracking is pretty decent, but the platen is horrible. Its extremely fast, but its a solid machine. I found my self limited and upgraded to a pheer after a few months.

I like the Pheer a lot, and it's a very solid machine. I purchased the 10" with 1.5hp variable speed, small wheel holder and 3 wheels for less than a flat platen kmg variable. As long as you set the Pheer up correctly and line everything up it grinds almost as well as the KMG's I've used. It's also nice that the Pheer came with a spare tooling arm for every attachment, the platen, the wheel, and the small wheel.

There is a used KMG on ebay right now, and they don't pop up very much.
 
It looks like I will be going with either a Pheer PH-427 with the 8 inch wheel and a 1.5 hp variable speed motor or a KMG. Is the KMG really $500 better than the Pheer? Should I just put that money toward spare belts, steel, handle material, etc.?

egally08 said:
There is a used KMG on ebay right now, and they don't pop up very much.
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Yeah--but isn't $1,600 opening bid a little high for a grinder that hasn't been run in 4 years/may not work?
 
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