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Who is liable when knife stolen by USPS -- dispute with user Kaw10e

Thomas Linton said:
The law in all fifty states agrees - so long as item was being sent to buyer's address, risk of loss passes from seller only on delivery to buyer unless expressly agreed otherwise as part of contract of sale.
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Will that apply where the package was delivered, but the expected contents missing? Hopefully so.
 
Seller should make things right
Things happen
The seller did his/her job
However as I have done in the past
I split the difference w buyer
Its a smaller loss all around
USPS insurance is worthless
Send signature required and or use a different carrier
 
This is 100% the sellers problem. It’s also the sellers fault. The seller decided to send a $200 knife in an envelope. The seller decided to not tape the envelope shut. The seller decided to not get insurance. It doesn’t matter if the seller is a good guy. Now he is a good guy that lost a knife by not taking the necessary precautions.

ETA: Both seller and buyer should be using the tracking number to have the USPS check weights.
 
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dyavorsky said:
I still have the packaging. Shipping price was $4.81 for USPS first class from Florida to California. That sounds about right for a package that started its life with a knife in it. Seller seems like a good guy that wouldn't just ship a tube, and I think this confirms that.
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What would actually confirm it is if you take your tracking number to the PO, they will be able to tell you if it changed weight from the initial mailing to when you received it. Should be fairly easy to see where it went missing that way.. But EITHER way, it's the sellers responsibility to get what you paid for to you, until it's in your hands it's still on them..
 
The seller did not do due diligence
as the seller/shipper in the proper packaging and insurance protection of the item. Therefore, the loss falls 100% on the seller and I'm sure PayPal will agree. I would not split cost or any other such arrangement.
 
OilMan said:
until it's in your hands it's still on them..
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This isn't true 100% of the time. Say a package is stollen off a door step or a roommate signs for and steals a package. Both items were delivered as agreed upon. These instances aren't on the seller, yet the item never made it to the buyers hands. I think PayPal would side with the seller.

Much like in this case, PayPal may side with the seller if the item said delivered. This situation is of course different because the gross negligence of the seller (and he should refund the buyer imo) but that all mighty "delivered" in the tracking history is very important to PayPal.
 
You pay for the bubble envelopes. The priority boxes are free (or rather included in price). Net difference: not enough to take the chance sending something worth more than that couple bucks. As others have said, I also put tape full circumference in multiple places, both directions. So as a little bonus, it takes a good knife to hack into my boxes. Safe for me, fun for you. :D
 
GIZMOMAN said:
Seller should make things right
Things happen
The seller did his/her job
However as I have done in the past
I split the difference w buyer
Its a smaller loss all around
USPS insurance is worthless
Send signature required and or use a different carrier
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1st I would not split on this one-even though it is likely the seller sent the item , it was due to his/or her negligence that it got lost. This is not like it was delivered and disappeared afterward.
2nd. I will add, while USPS claims my be hard(especially when item shows delivered), adding the signature will make the claim much easier-but neither would likely apply here.
Better packaging was the answer here
 
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A few members have suggested checking to see if the weight changed during transit. I am not aware of any re-weighing of the packages or why they would do so. They are scanned at different points. They handle a lot of packages to be constantly re-weighing , and the only purpose I could think of is internal theft.
can someone elaborate
 
Peter Hartwig said:
A few members have suggested checking to see if the weight changed during transit. I am not aware of any re-weighing of the packages or why they would do so. They are scanned at different points. They handle a lot of packages to be constantly re-weighing , and the only purpose I could think of is internal theft.
can someone elaborate
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I was just suggesting he check the original shipped weight against the weight of what he received. If the weight is the same then there was no knife in the package to begin with.
If what he received weighs less than the original weight then it went missing in transit.
 
Odog27 said:
I was just suggesting he check the original shipped weight against the weight of what he received. If the weight is the same then there was no knife in the package to begin with.
If what he received weighs less than the original weight then it went missing in transit.
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After re-reading yours and oilman's post, I think you both meant that, and I just read it wrong.
Good suggestion
 
Had a seller ship me a Swamp Rat Rattle Hawk in a soft envelope.

20 holes in the package, and a razor sharp beard (front and back of beard sharpened) poking through and almost hooked my postal workers hand.

Seller had placed a piece of rubber on the points with a single piece of scotch tape holding it on. Then threw the sucker in a soft envelope!!!


People are not bright!!!


UPVTIcJ.jpg



Sounds like the seller owes you a refund.

But, USPS will likely show package delivered, and you might not get a paypal claim, unless the weight when shipped on label shows the weight of just the empty tube?
 
It is a question of fact as to whether the knife was delivered in the circumstances stated (package arrived empty). What evidence does the seller have that the knife was in the package when the package reached the buyer?
 
I hear you that a lot of this is "he said, she said". If I was a dishonest buyer, I could have received the knife and then just claimed that I got a package with a tube but no knife. My 100+ feedback on here and no other claims hopefully suggests that I'm not that kind of buyer, but this has to be a major concern for USPS/Paypal, especially when the package is marked as delivered.
 
Thomas Linton said:
It is a question of fact as to whether the knife was delivered in the circumstances stated (package arrived empty). What evidence does the seller have that the knife was in the package when the package reached the buyer?
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It can get very sticky with situations because of all the what if's. Who is being dishonest especially when both parties have a good transaction record and proving fault of seller, buyer, or shipping service. One thing that is certain, uninsured, not properly packaged, using a bubble mailer does not give much credibility to the seller imo. Honestly, I don't do much private transactions anymore due to all the possible headaches. When I'm buying items over a certain value I purchase through well established dealers and businesses. Can't be bothered with drama anymore
 
I don't think it is a done deal that Paypal would automatically side with the buyer. They have in the past taken the stance that if the pkg is showing delivered to the proper address then the seller has fulfilled their obligation.
Would be nice to hear from the seller. Certainly more facts would help to REALLY know with certainty what truly happened here, but the buyer would appear to have done nothing wrong. The seller, failed to do an adequate job of protecting themselves with insurance and good packaging(and in the end the buyer too). At a minimum, I would think the seller should offer to refund half. If it was me, and I felt the buyer was solid, I would likely refund the whole amount. Of course this is just going off of what is known at this time.
 
While both parties started out with good reputations, if the seller doesn't come on here with a good case or take care of the problem, he is likely not leaving with a good reputation. Most likely scenario is that somewhere down the post office line , someone felt the tube and presumed it may have something of value. They are the thief, but the responsibility is the sellers. None of us jump for joy paying these claims, but it is the right thing to do. Seller decided to go cheap on the mailing and was lacking on the packaging, and it is a costly mistake. Seller should do the right thing now, or at least reply and get involved in a solution. The longer this thread continues the more damage that it will cause him. Make things right and he likely adds positive to his reputation. We all are great sellers when there are no problems.
PP really shouldn't be needed to resolve our problems
 
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