Who is liable when knife stolen by USPS -- dispute with user Kaw10e

[braillediver]

I pack the item so it's not coming out easily.

Wrapped up and Tapped to the inside of a Free Priority Mail Box. You have to open the box to get the item out.

I think PeteyTwoPointOne sent me a knife and it was like torture wanting to see the new knife and taking 10 minutes to unpack it.

 

[Triton]

The seller did not do due diligence
as the seller/shipper in the proper packaging and insurance protection of the item. Therefore, the loss falls 100% on the seller and I'm sure PayPal will agree. I would not split cost or any other such arrangement.

Completely agree, the buyer is in no way responsible. If the seller tried to "split" the loss with me I would be extremely irate.

 

[johnnytoxin]

Seller should make things right
Things happen
The seller did his/her job
However as I have done in the past
I split the difference w buyer
Its a smaller loss all around
USPS insurance is worthless
Send signature required and or use a different carrier

In my experience usps insurance was totally worth it. In my case, usps failed to deliver the knife. I refunded the buyer, waited 15 days and electronically submitted the insurance claim with proof of value. Had a check in about a week. But I agree signature required is also a must.

 

[Pete1977]

Has there been any resolution to this?

 

[dyavorsky]

Has there been any resolution to this?

Seller's response:

"I understand where you’re coming from but I cannot accept responsibility for USPS. On the same note there wasn’t mention of the package being insured nor was it requested by you. Therefore I have no legal standing to get reimbursement from USPS."

I have contacted Paypal and am hoping they can help me reach a resolution.

 

[WValtakis]

Seller's response:

"I understand where you’re coming from but I cannot accept responsibility for USPS. On the same note there wasn’t mention of the package being insured nor was it requested by you. Therefore I have no legal standing to get reimbursement from USPS."

I have contacted Paypal and am hoping they can help me reach a resolution.

When PayPal understands that you did not receive what you paid for they'll refund. But that definitely makes @Kaw10e a seller I would never buy from. Insurance is purchased by, and protects the seller...not the buyer.

 

[Boru13]

Insurance is purchased by, and protects the seller...not the buyer.

So many fail to comprehend this.

This is also a perfect example as to why one should always use G&S and never F&F when using PayPal to conduct transactions on BF’s.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

If that was the sellers response he should no longer be able to conduct transactions here

 

[Bottom Line]

Seller's response:

"I understand where you’re coming from but I cannot accept responsibility for USPS. On the same note there wasn’t mention of the package being insured nor was it requested by you. Therefore I have no legal standing to get reimbursement from USPS."

I have contacted Paypal and am hoping they can help me reach a resolution.

Lame response from seller. Hopefully PP will make it right.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Seller's response:

"I understand where you’re coming from but I cannot accept responsibility for USPS. On the same note there wasn’t mention of the package being insured nor was it requested by you. Therefore I have no legal standing to get reimbursement from USPS."

I have contacted Paypal and am hoping they can help me reach a resolution.

As already stated-the insurance is for the sellers protection, which fully indicates who is responsible when USPS screws up.
Hopefully PP will make this right
I can't deal with someone who won't stand behind their deal. I would give this guy negative feedback also, stating just that-but that is up to the OP. It would serve as a warning to all in the future

 

[Pete1977]

As already stated-the insurance is for the sellers protection, which fully indicates who is responsible when USPS screws up.
Hopefully PP will make this right
I can't deal with someone who won't stand behind their deal. I would give this guy negative feedback also, stating just that-but that is up to the OP. It would serve as a warning to all in the future

If there ever has been an irrefutable reason to give negative feedback, this is it.

Poor form @Kaw10e

 

[annr]

Did anyone contact USPS (postmaster and mail carrier on either/both ends), tell them what happened, and ask them to "look" for the knife or get an explanation?

 

[Thomas Linton]

The law:
.
UCC 2-509:


"(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination [sale "FOB" some place other than destination], the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but

(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.
. . .
(4) The provisions of this section are subject to contrary agreement of the parties and to the provisions of this Article on sale on approval (Section 2-327) and on effect of breach on risk of loss (Section 2-510)."

So what does this mean?

Almost always when we buy a knife, the deal is that the seller is to have the knife delivered to our address - a "particular destination" - by a carrier that he selects in packing that he supplies. Under the law applicable to such a set of facts, the risk of loss passes to the buyer only on delivery to that address unless the buyer refuses to accept the delivery OR unless the contract was otherwise. For example, if the seller says, "When you buy from me, risk of loss passes to you, buyer, when I deliver the knife to UPS/USPS/FEdEX," then by paying you have agreed to those terms and the risk of loss passes to you on delivery to the carrier.

 

[UffDa]

Another case of loss due to poor packaging and lack of tape! When will people learn?!?!?!?! This is the seller’s problem to fix. Be sure to not miss your window for filing a PayPal claim if it ends up coming to that.

I agree 110%.

I am constantly amazed at how stupid, lazy and cheap people can be. I have received USPS priority boxes where the glue has failed. I tape all the corners and seams. 25¢ or less of packing tape and a few minutes of time can save hours of aggravation.

Will people ever learn? Nope.

 

[Bill Siegle]

The real sad part is on Priority shipping the PO will let you use their tape gun at the office!!!! Simply no reason for these situations!!!!

 

[UffDa]

The real sad part is on Priority shipping the PO will let you use their tape gun at the office!!!! Simply no reason for these situations!!!!

I include myself.

 

[craytab]

Insurance is for the seller. It's in the rules. At this point, the seller is not only breaking the rules but has nothing to say for himself. If he's not banned, at least he should be ignored by all who read this thread.

The law:
.
UCC 2-509:


"(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination [sale "FOB" some place other than destination], the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but

(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.
. . .
(4) The provisions of this section are subject to contrary agreement of the parties and to the provisions of this Article on sale on approval (Section 2-327) and on effect of breach on risk of loss (Section 2-510)."

So what does this mean?

Almost always when we buy a knife, the deal is that the seller is to have the knife delivered to our address - a "particular destination" - by a carrier that he selects in packing that he supplies. Under the law applicable to such a set of facts, the risk of loss passes to the buyer only on delivery to that address unless the buyer refuses to accept the delivery OR unless the contract was otherwise. For example, if the seller says, "When you buy from me, risk of loss passes to you, buyer, when I deliver the knife to UPS/USPS/FEdEX," then by paying you have agreed to those terms and the risk of loss passes to you on delivery to the carrier.

Laws have little to do when agreeing to PayPal's TOS.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Another name to add to the ignore list.


I've had some real doozies delivered. Had a Khukri delivered with half of the sheath poking out of the box. And that one was in a very sturdy box, the knife in the sheath and the sheath very well bubble wrapped and taped. I was able to pull the sheath and knife half way out. So that guy did a lot of bubble wrapping, but it looked like the box had a fight with a Land Shark....

Had a bearded fighting hawk with sharpened beard/spike/top edge sharpened.....guy shipped it ri me in a padded envelope. No sheath!!!! Nearly sliced my self, and it nearly got the post woman!!

 

[PirateSeulb]

I mostly skimmed this thread but the seller's absence in this thread despite being tagged twice is a telling sign to me that he is not one to deal with or be trusted.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Seller goes on the ignore list.