Why buy knives from ??? Makers

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SDouglas

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Jan 6, 1999
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I was thinking about this question and then I read Max's post on labels adding to it.

Why do you buy Custom(Most Generic Definition) Knives instead of Factory Knives?

I don't believe that it is any longer a Universal Truth that Custom Knives meet higher Quality Standards than Factory Knives.

I also don't believe that it is a Universal Truth that Custom Knives have better designs than Factory Knives. If for no other reason than the outstanding collaborations now on the market.

So why do you choose to buy a knife from a Custom Maker?

Personally, I find that I base my decisions on my perception of the Maker as an individual as much or more than on the knife itself.

The number of makers and the overall quality of the selections available make it much easier to find comparable knives from enough makers to buy from someone I like.
 
For me, it is the idea that this person making the custom knife has done all this work himself. I am buying a part of the maker's soul. I know a maker has put a lot of himself into this knife, unlike a production knife that is ground out on a computer controlled machine. Pick up one of Jerry Fisk's knives or Roger Massey's. Or any number of the top makers out there. Try to find a flaw. Most likely you wont. These guys are good! I buy customs because these guys can do amazing stuff with steel that I currently cannot come close to. Heck, even if I someday become as good as these top makers, I will probably still buy their knives. Somehow, I just cant get too excited about a factory knife. I have lots of factory knives, but I dont sit and admire them like I do the customs.
 
Two things originally got me thinking about this question.

1. I saw a number of knives at SECKS that failed to impress me. There were many more that did but I noticed a number of knives that from a pure Knife Design and Execution standpoint were lacking compared to today's Factory Offerings.

2. I did a side by side comparison of a CRKT F4 and a Kit Carson F4 and was impressed by the fidelity of the CRKT piece to the original. I know that they are using a much lower grade of steel but the fit, finish and feel of the copy were excellent.

These two incidents prompted me to evaluate why my interests are shifting more toward customs and away from Factory Offerings.

I realized that in both Customs and the Factory Offerings I still have interest in it is the person or people behind the knife that generate the interest.
 
I think of even the most basic custom knife as a work of art. A sculpture in steel that has the added benefit of being a very functional tool you can carry with you and use. I know the maker has put a lot of sweat, maybe some blood, and part of his soul into creating that knife. When I use a custom knife, I know the maker is very proud that his work of art is performing up to his high standards. I just don't get the same feeling from owning and using a production knife.:)
 
I'm still new at this custom knife game, but I was looking for something specific in my next knife. I found a local knifemaker to work with; we discussed every aspect of my knife, so it will be exactly what I want. I can't do that with factory knives.
 
You make some good points SDouglas. And that's a very good question too. Why buy a custom or handmade knife when you can buy something comparabe at a production knife supplier for less? Here's how I see it.

Production knives are for the masses that aren't concerned with the how or why in a knife's construction. That's why there's a definate line between the handmade and production knife buyers. Some folks are concerned about just what went into a knife and why it costs so much. Other folks just find something in their price range and buy it. Look at it like this. When you buy a 'custom' knife, the knife is made especially for you. You get to help in some of the design or at least materials used. You have a personal stake in that knife. A production knife is made for any man or woman on the planet. It all depends on who comes up with the cash first.

As far as a handmade knife goes, it's just personal preference. You get to make a choice about the type of knife you buy. You go to the makers that make the type of knives you like and buy one that speaks to you when you handle it. No, not like 'hi, how you doin? Why don't you buy me?'. Any experienced buyer or collector knows what I mean. It's all in what you want from a knife. There's a certain warmth to a well made knife that doesn't come from an assembly line. That's about the best I can do with this subject.
 
Max,
Some of the best words I have read on the subject. Fantastic explaination.
Thank you.

I will be the first to agree that that there are some fine factory knives out there (shh I actually own a few), but none other than an MT Dragon Slayer compare to the customs I own and use. Keep in mind that I look through very jaded eyes.

I am going to reverse the thought. Take a sub 200.00 dollar Dozier and use it for what it was designed for. Take a factory knife of the same type and cost and do the same. It all boils down to the maker, what you like and what you can spend. O

One key is to enjoy them, with handmade and Custom knives another key that can develop is a friendship. It is way cool to have a knife made for you by someone who you have gotten to know in and outside the world of knives. You may go out and use the heck out of it one weekend in the years to come or you may pull it out of your safe or the cushy place it resides or you may pull it out of your pocket or from around your neck or out of it's sheath every once in a while, when you do often times you are reminded of the friend or person that made it.

Here is an example and it is not even that artsy :D

Some of you BF old timers may remember a guy who posted as Shaded Dude. He used to live in Atlanta. Last year he and his wife moved to TN. Back when I was selling I sold him a MT Mini Socom for his wife. Johnny is in his early to mid 20's and started maked knives a couple of years ago.

Last week he sent me a folder that I ordered. His third one and I am thrilled with it. Solid well-made knife with great ergonomics and a nice design. Not to mention some of the nicest cocobolo handles I have ever seen. He would be the first to say that there are a few higher end factory knives that compare to it (only a handfull imo), but after carrying and using this knife for about a week, no factory knife could give me the same level of enjoyment that comes using the knife.
 

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I think that including some of the excellent explanations that have already been offered there are a few things that IMO we as educated Knife Buyers/Collectors have in common;

- First, owning and appreciating Knives appeals to our masculine or primal senses, being the Hunter Gatherer and Protectors that we see ourselves to be.

- We all have a desire to own a that special knife that is better, more unique, that has greater potential than what we often assume are above the limits of the normal Factory offerings. (Right or Wrong)

- We enjoy the comraderie that comes with being part of a small group of like minded individuals - those who own and appreciate Custom Made Knives.

- When we purchase a Custom Made (esp Hand Forged) knife most of us enjoy the feeling that we are helping to advance the Career of a very talented person who is an Artist in a Craft that is quickly becoming more rare.

Just my Opinion on the subject.
 
Why custom?

Simple . . . because I can get whatever I want.

Its true that factory knives by reputable companies are very good. But what if you want a slightly smaller version of a certain style, or a slightly different shape, or a non-tanto blade, or no serrations, or a Ti instead of SS frame, or a different steel, or with micarta instead of zytel, etc etc? It is hard enough for any single knife company to provide everything that their customers want; just check the Spyderco forum here to see loyal fans (including myself) clamoring for different steels or styles.

And how many factory knives have options of damascus, various hardwoods, ivory, engraving, filework, etc?

Its all about personal preference . . . variety is indeed the spice of life.

You also have the ability to deal directly with individuals and promote/support a craft and way of life that would otherwise vanish.
 
Like you, one of the big reasons that I buy knives from knifemakers because of the makers themselves. I like getting to know them, talking knives with themand even getting to be friends with many of them.

I also like to be able to get the knife the way I want it. Sometimes that means choosing the materials or giving some ideas as to the design. Other times it may be just being able to decide what length blade, size handle or even if it is for a left or right handed person. These are not things that you can do with factory knives. They are made one way, sometimes with a few handle material choices, black or natural blade or regular or serrated.

Yes, some of the factory knives are getting to be as good as a lot of what the makers have to offer. These knives are not really very much if any less expensive. Look at the cost of knives from Chris Reeve and the upper range knives of William Henry and Microtech. If I am going to spend that kind of money I want something that has been designed by the collaboration between myself and the maker. When I carry this knife I like to think that there is a little bit of me in it and I love to think of the friend that made it just for me.
 
Max

I have to agree with Gus. You have put it very nicely. I have more factory knives than customs, BUT I have more enjoyment out of the customs.

I have two Damascus knives by a Georgia ‘smith, Fred King. Fred got his ABS Journeyman’s stamp a couple of years ago. The first knife I got from him skinned and butchered two deer and it would still shave without a touchup. I’ve been to his shop and got the exact knife I wanted in the second.

That same year my wife and I talked to a new maker and his wife. They were really nice people. He had a few knives left on his table for sale. We ended up buying one and talked about getting another one later in the year. Well one thing lead to another and we didn’t get that second knife. At this years blade show we almost had to beat people away to look at the knives on his table. He remembered us somewhat; we bought one of the two knives of that style he sold last year. After the required drooling time I found out that most of his knives were already sold. But reaching under the table he brought out a little fixed blade that now is sitting on my dresser. One of these days I’ll have more Snody knives to go with the ones I have now.

Knowing the makers from the forums and getting to put a face with a name is enjoyment.

Knowing the maker and getting just the knife you want makes it better.


Sorry about the rambling but it’s getting late.
 
...So if I missed anything, just sue me...ok, so ya gotta get in line first...lol

BladeWest a few days back...lots of knives, lots of makers, some nice stuff, some not so nice stuff...

Ya buy what ya like, from who ya like, and you can't go wrong.

I placed an order for one knife, a fixed blade MFK...from Mike Irie.

Is it custom? I dunno, I had some input on the finished knife, but it's minor cosmetic "stuff" like a sharpened upper edge, a black Micarta handle, and a Kydex sheath...so I'd have to say it's more of a "customized handmade" than anything else... ;) (That's for you Gus)

I bought it for a few reasons...I love the grind, and Mike smiled when I said, "Oh look honey, it's a tactical version of the Puma "White Hunter"..in fact he laughed as I winked at him...

So there ya go, something you like, from someone that you like...(or will at least see your humor, AND tolerate you...lol).

That's what it's all about folks...having fun, and having a laugh!

Also, Tom Mayo...his knives interested me a little, they interested my wife quite a bit...I dunno, maybe it was just Tom she was interested in...lol

A great guy to talk with, and his personality will have an financial impact with the dollars we spend on his products...

Find someone that you can work with, a product that interests you, and you'll have the best of both worlds...oh yeah, and a job or trust fund helps too...

Working for a living, living for fun...
 
Time for you to join us Melvin, thanks for your concern, but I think I understood your point about 20 years ago.

It is getting old Melvin, real old. Thanks for your concern towards my education though. Could we move on now? Or is your desire to keep harping on the obvious? If your just joking around the same joke over 3 or 4 months is not a joke any more.
 
I guess we are attaracted to customs for the same reason we hate to walk around in uniform. There is something to said for a little variety and color. From a quality, fit, and finish perspective the top end factory knives compare very well with custom knives selling around the same price point. But you can't compare the two on design, and sometimes a small subtle change, like a smaller radius handle, or a slightly dufferent texure, can mean a world of difference in terms of comfort.
 
Being left handed put me in the custom market. I look for who is popular in the forums, look at their stuff, and if I like I get it. I will e-mail the knifemaker to ask questions. If they are prompt with a reply, that is a good sign. If a knife maker is reluctant to make a left hand knife, I pass them up. Most customs that I have are of excellent quality. I'm not a hard knife user and I realize that I could do the same thing with a knife 1/3 of the cost. But I like the relationship that you get with having a custom. I've bought a number of TNT's from Tom Mayo and I can't say enough nice things about him. With a custom (or however you want to define it because I know that there is a lot of contraversy about this lately), you get more than a knife, you get customer service. Since I am left handed all my knives have been made just for me as knife makers will not stock left handers. I've carried knives for at least twenty years and I have found that even with light use, most production knives will deteriorate in a couple years. My favorites are: Tom Mayo, Darrel Ralph and Chris Reeves. While Reeves isn't a custom per definition, I like the small Sebenza for it's quality and for CRK's customer service and because they are left hand friendly.
 
A lot of it comes down to bragging rights. I don't [yet] own any "one of a kind" customs. I have a few knives from custom makers, but they are all "standard models" for these makers, so there is certainly more than one of them.

It is probably true though that there will not be as many of these knives out there, as there are <i>functionally</i> comparable factory knives. Thus, when I pull my Dozier K-1 or Livesay AA out of its sheath in camp, the chances are my knife will me the most unique one around. :) Uniqueness confers bragging rights (supposed to get the woman too) and that is the bottom line after all! ;)
 
I just got back from 3 days of Spirit of Steel and I saw lots of quality knives. We have lots of people that make quality knives. You just need to go to shows to see them. I found a guy at this show that I had never heard of before but after looking at his knives, I got two. You will see them on the forum soon. Most forumites have never heard his name.
 
There are certainly many fine production companies and knives from them. Collaborations with custom makers can make their designs affordable to most anyone. Still there's something special about something made by hand, by one person. I don't care if it's a handmade sweater, or a crayon drawing from one of your children, it's personal, it's a way of touching someone else. When you get to something as complex as making a knife it raises the level of interest. I've never made a knife, but I do understand the process and can see all the work that went into making one.

Once you get past the knife itself and get on to the makers themselves that adds the final element to their value. I've said it before, I was attracted first to collecting knives by the knives and I stayed for the people, the makers, the dealers and the other collectors. Knife people are still the nicest bunch of people I've ever met. Being able to talk to the makers at a show or even over the Internet you can share your admiration for what they do, but when you get to buy one of their knives is really when you get to show how much you like their work. I think the makers know how many choices a buyer has to spend their money and have to feel a special pleasure when you slect one of their creations. The problem is that most people don't have the funds to buy knives from all the makers that they would like to, I know I don't.

Bragging rights plays a big part of it for me, but when you consider most people think you're nuts for spending more that $20 for a knife you have have to be very selective on where you do your bragging. That's where this place comes in. When I get a new custom knife this is the place I come to show it off. Here is where my friends can appreciate the knife and share my pleasure. Since I can't buy a new custom knife whenever I feel like, this is the place I come also to share in someone else's new knife. I'll be honest with you, I don't feel the same thing when I hear about someone's new production knife. It's like being a kid at Christmas and opening up a gift and it's socks. Sure you can use them, but it just isn't the toy you were hoping for. ;)
 
I looked through the posts here and nodded my head a couple times, but something was missing. Then Phil added:

"..... or a crayon drawing from one of your children, it's personal, it's a way of touching someone else."

Damn, Phil. That's a part of the value of a custom piece that can never be measured. It is the reason you buy it, and the reason you will never part with it. It is the reason that you feel different when you pick it up. It is also sometimes the reason you choose one maker over another.

And honestly, I like the shape and feel of the Schrade Sharpfinger. Now, if I'd like just a hair of recurve to the profile, handle material from a stump from some guy's yard down in Arkansas, and a chainsaw DaMaxcus blade, I have no production piece to choose from, do I? I gotta buck up and dispose of some cash.

Kind of gives "Max-ing out a credit card" a whole new meaning, eh? ;)
 
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