Why the all the hoopla over BG42 or S30V? Warning Long Rant Large Picture

WTFOver

WTFOver

Joined
Oct 21, 2000
Messages
537
I am new to Strider Knives but I wonder why I see all this hoopla over “Is it S30V or isn’t it?... Only Mick seems to know for sure.” I bought my GB from Phil at 2theHilt just recently after giving up on waiting for Jerry Busse to build a Tank of a folder. Everyone told me that if I wanted a folder that could take incredible abuse and was available now that the AR and GB were the way to go. Once Phil shipped me this monster I learned that it was true. This was a true “Folding Fixed Blade Knife”.

I had lurked for months before ordering and saw that every time someone messed up a knife (Even if they admitted that they were abusing the knife) Mick always seemed to answer “Send it in we’ll make it right.” These knives made their reputation long before S30V blades and so I wonder… What does it matter? BG42… S30V… If I can F*** it up Mick can and will fix it.

Phil told me mine was BG42… The Strider Shop had told him it was BG42. It is marked BG42, the logo looks like the “Old Style”, the Clip is black and while the blade in person doesn’t have a reddish tone to the stripes… you sure can see it in the pictures. Maybe it’s S30V or maybe it’s BG42. Phil just emailed me that Mick told him all of his were S30V but I’m guessing mine is not. He offered to take mine back and ship me a S30V one in its place. I figure why bother. He told me it was BG42 so I have “no bone to pick” but that’s the way he does business and one of the reasons I buy from him so often.

One thing I do know for sure is that it’s a STRIDER, to me that means that Mick and Co. will stand behind it and that is 1000% more important than what steel was used to make the blade.

I had my GB only 3 days before it was shipped to G2 for sheath fitting but in those 3 days I found that if I ever needed to rely on a folder this was the one. The damn thing is indestructible no matter which blade material was used. I sent it off so quickly because in the short time that I did have it I realized that this was a knife I wanted carry, use, and beat the heck out of. Unfortunately for my pants you can’t build a tank without being a little aggressive and that meant that my pants would give in no time flat. Sure there are Kydex rigs and Phil had some in stock but I really like leather and G2 makes great, tough sheaths.

Is there something I’m missing here? Has anyone using a GB or AR with BG42 and then switching to S30V noticed anything other than a color difference on the Stripes? I guess from other knives I’ve used I noticed the S30V is a little tougher to sharpen and might hold an edged slightly longer but I don’t think I really could say I could tell the difference?

Sorry for the Rant. Maybe not the best way to enter a new forum but inquiring minds would like to know. Thanks to all who put up with this and respond.

stridergb2.jpg
 
This is a clear case of BG42 vs. S30V.

From a usage standpoint, you probably won't notice a difference in the two knives unless you are using the knife daily for extended periods of time in adverse climates/environments. For a light user, like most of us, it will make no difference at all.

However, as these tools are marketed towards professional military personnel who may use (or abuse) them for extended periods of time in adverse climates/environments without leisure time to maintain the knives, the advantages of the S30V over BG42 does make a difference.


You have already outlined those advantages in your post. Among them are:

Better edge retention - S30V is a powdered steel, BG42 isn't.

Better corrosion resistance - S30V is considered a stainless steel, BG42 isn't.

These S30V blades are heat treated by Paul Bos, who is considered the best in the business.

Upons searching this site for S30V I found evidence that Jerry Hossom, another knife maker who uses Paul Bos heat treated S30V extensively, finds that S30V is as tough or tougher than the A2 steel that he has used in many of his large knives.

Rob Simonich, who also produces knives that use Paul Bos heat treated S30V also sing praises to the performance of the new steel.

If S30V is all hype, it will become apparent soon as users will eventually test the limits of the two contrasting metals.

Personally, I think the concensus of this group of highly respected knife makers is good reliable expert testimony to the functionality and value of S30V.


Edited: Got Jerry Hossom and Chris Reeves mixed up.
 
I'll second that S30V is way better in rust/corrosion resistance.
I have had folders in BG-42 and there were a lot of rust spots, unless I cleaned and oiled frequntly. With my current S30V stamped S30V Strider GB, I have had zero rust spots, mind you I have cleaned my folder ONCE in 4 months of use. I sprayed it with cable lube at work and blasted it with the compressor hose. I am amazed at this knife every time I use it!

Sharpening.
I found S30V to be a bit tougher to sharpen. Two days ago I broke down and sharpened my GB myself. Ceramic rods did not do much to sharpen the folder. I found the best method for me was on my DMT bench stone. Diamond grit, medium stone. The blade had been through extensive everyday use. It did not take long to do and now pops hair. BUT I did find S30V harder to sharpen.

I have had BG-42 roll over on the edge, have not experienced that with the S30V GB.

This being said I don't think it matters if your folder is BG-42 or S30V! ITS A STRIDER!
 
Sundsvall,

I understand your point that under normal civilian use the difference between S30V and BG42 might never be seen by the end user. Care for your equipment never seemed to be an area that was disregarded while I was in the military but I can also see that reduced maintenance while in the field for an extended time would be an advantage. However, cleaning and maintaining your gear was always a priority.

S30V does beat BG42 in stain resistance, a point that I should have given more weight to when thinking this through.

Corrosion resistance and Stainless are not the same but Ed Severson of Crucible Steel did post back in November of last year that “the corrosion resistance is equal to the levels of BG-42, 440C, 154CM, etc.”

The BG42 used by Strider was heat treated by Paul Bos as noted by his logo on the blade. You are 100% correct in the statement that Paul Bos is considered the top dawg. Very few, if anyone, would argue that point.

I too have seen many respected makers move to this product. I must agree with you that there must be a reason for the move. Are they all related to what the end user sees in the product or are there advantages to the maker in using S30V in the manufacturing process? I can’t answer this, maybe Mick can if he chooses to join in. I also wonder if in this very competitive field some makers feel compelled to make a move to the new “wonder steels” just because others have and they fear loss of market share.

My issue was more… generic… than your response. I noticed over the past few months that many people seemed more concerned by the blade steel than they were about the product as a whole. Almost making it seem as if the BG42 blades that earned the AR and the GB their reputations were vastly inferior to the newer S30V blades that in truth had not even been received yet (at the time) and so had not been “Field Tested By End Users” in high volumes.

I was not trying to start a S30V vs. BG42 discussion as much as I was trying to indicate that I feel that the focus on the Blade Steel detracted from what I felt was more important … The Honor of the Maker. Also in this case the Honor of the Seller.

I don’t foresee that I will in any way miss not having a S30V blade. I’m comfortable with the fact that BG42 “brought us to the Dance and I’m going home with her”. I would not have bought a Strider folder just because it had that latest and greatest wonder steel. I bought it because of the reputation earned by the knife and the Maker. I bought it knowing that if I need to push it to the extreme it will come through it with flying colors and that if I’m ever able to push it beyond its “performance envelope” Strider will stand behind it and “Make it Right”.

This may well be a point that was self evident to those of you with past experience with Strider. I however, had none, other than reading posts and a new GB that I only had for 3 days.

If I offended, I’m sorry, no offence meant… If I misunderstood, I’m sorry as well, often I forget to engage brain prior to speaking or typing. Now, I’m off for a pint or six and look forward to any other comments.
 
spartan_ajax,
Thanks for your response. I can’t say that I have noticed a significant difference between my Sebenza’s that are BG42 and S30V with regard to rust resistance. (Sorry but the only knives that I have in both steels are Sebenzas.) It is possible that I tend to oil and clean more frequently then you do and so that may be why I have not seen this. Users I tend to do weekly and safe queens monthly.

I have found that I am not as good (YET) at sharpening S30V. I also find that the burr I seek is not always there. I believe that it tends to detach and so I am working on fine tuning my skills. I have had BG42 roll but I have been able to steel the edge back. I understand this may not be quite so easy with S30V.

But I digress because as stated in my earlier post I wanted to make it clear that I was not trying to start a BG42 vs. S30V pissing contest. My issue was best addressed by your parting comment. “I don't think it matters if your folder is BG-42 or S30V! IT’S A STRIDER!” That sums up the point I wanted to make very succinctly.

Thank you,
 
No offence is evident WTFOver.

Your question is a valid one.

I don't know if S30V is the be-all and end-all of knife steels. It probably isn't. It is the new "it" steel, how long it stays in that position remains to be seen.

I do know that Crucible designed S30V for knife blade applications. The engineers must have thought alot about sharpness, edge retention, stain resistance, lateral strength, economics, blah, blah, when designing the steel.

BG42 on the other hand, was originally designed for ball bearings for the space shuttle. BG42's engineered key feature is keeping it's shape under extremely high levels of vibrations. This particular feature is not exactly taken advantage of in the hands of men. 52100 is a ball bearing steel that happens to make a great knife steel. It must not have taken long for someone to impute this relationship to BG42.

I think some prespective can be gained with this analogy:
A chef has to be good at his/her craft, but also needs the best ingredients. A good chef with bad ingredients will produce a mediocre meal at best.

So yeah, you need both, a good knifemaker and some damn good steel, too.
 
These knives made their reputation long before S30V blades and so I wonder… What does it matter?
Click to expand...

I think that pretty much sums it up. It is a good world indeed when we can leisurely debate about the finer points of steels...
 
A number of people have reported some difficulty in sharpening S30V, but it is mostly a non-problem. This is the finest grained stainless steel made, so the wire edge you're used to seeing is much different than on a steel like 154CM or BG42. It should be VERY fine. Fine is good, and when you see that just strop it off. Actually you can just leave it on and the knife will actually begin to cut better as it is used. What you can't see in comparing S30V and BG42 in normal circumstances is that S30V is a LOT tougher. That means you are less likely to damage the blade in abusive conditions, and the edge will wear longer, because it minimizes micro-chipping which is a major component of dulling in hard use knives. Strider Knives are designed and built for hard use, and that's where the benefits of S30V are best seen. It's a great steel, but you have to really use it hard to see just how good it is...
 
Jerry - what about S90V? I've heard even better things about S90V, not that the peformance noticable to users will change by any significant percentage...

Kevin
 
Kevin, S90V is brittle compared with 30V and is not well suited to hard beating. It's a very wear-resistant steel because of the 9% Vanadium Carbides, but that's at the price of being prone to micro-chipping. Crucible has learned that CPM-3V is outperforming (outwearing) CPM-10V when used in stamping dies for the same reason. Micro-chipping is a major source of knife dulling. S30V is highly resistant to that, in addition to withstanding some amazing abuse without chipping or breaking. Three things cause an edge to fail: abrasive wear, microchipping, and corrosion. S30V addresses all of those.
 
Guys,

Thanks for a VERY informative thread on this issue. I have been searching for hours collecting information about these materials. Most of the questions that I wanted answers for I have found here.

Thanks once again.

Rgds,
B
 
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