woodchuck miscellania

firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
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a few random observatons with a couple of questions thrown in...

Murphy's oil soap comes in two flavors:

Original--fairly thick, simple screw cap
Multi-use cleaner-- thinner, sprayer top

I think most references here are to the original formula, but of course when I had a big itch to get some, the store only had the multi-use formula, which I bought and it seemed to work OK. Whatever makes it thinner, very rapidily soaked into the wood. No obvious problems after it's use a few weeks ago and several coats of tung oil. I'll use the proven original from now on just to be safe.

The formulated tung oil I bought [Gillespie brand] began to partially coagulate in the can about 10 days after opening. What poured out was thicker, and some big custard-like (or phlegm-like, for those who better relate to gross descriptors) plopped out. I kept pitching the chunks and what's left seems to work just fine and is as thin as before. I suspect that there were two or more drying agents, one of which sets up faster, and is now gone. I was pouring a little oil into the cap, and returning the unused amount to the container. I'd reccomend throwing unused oil away and drying the cap, instead of putting it back, especially if the main container is larger than a few ounces. Since I bought a freakin' quart, I'd feel pretty dumb if the whole lot had gone off.

I got a 25" sirupati, mainly for a wall hanger, and to see what a longer, 36 oz khuk is like. Plus, I wanted one of the old embossed scabbards and a long chakma. I got all I wanted and more, I couldn't really use the 25" sirupati for long, but it's not as unwieldy as I would have thought. And I'm pretty sure a shorter 36 ounce khuk like an AK baby GSR would be very handy, as would 21" Chitlangi or GS. Questions answered, and my 22-oz 18-inchers seem so much lighter now! Anyway, the sirupati chakma handle is a very dark chocolate-burgundy color with finer grain that polishes up very fast. Sanding dust is almost violet. Very nice wood. Is this the hill walnut??

The ArmorAll component of Wal's procedure does do something amazing, I started using it after I started to build up the oil layer and it makes a big difference.

Any tips on dealing with the full-tang, riveted wooden handles that came on YCS kardas? While coarse sanding, I tried to fill gaps near the metal by sanding wood only, and applying superglue to lock in the wood dust. Then I put super glue on the wood next to metal I wanted to sand down to keep metal dust from getting worked into the wood. Sanding off the super glue as I finished the coarse work followed by a Murphy's scrub worked well. The problem is how to get a final polish and oiling done without getting a dull grey metal dust worked into the wood.
 
Originally posted by firkin
...The formulated tung oil I bought [Gillespie brand] began to partially coagulate in the can about 10 days after opening. What poured out was thicker, and some big custard-like (or phlegm-like, for those who better relate to gross descriptors) plopped out...
Click to expand...

Sounds like the tung oil is polymerizing firkin. Here's what it says on the back of the bottle of tung oil I have.

"Tung oil will polymerize and harden if air is allowed to remain in the container. To avoid this, you may squeeze the air out before capping, place marbles (in the container) to displace the air, or use smaller containers."

The bottle is plastic so it can squeezed to get most of the air out before the cap goes back on. Hope this helps.
 
coalblack,

Well, that is what we want to happen on the wood:)

But, I should probably pour what's left into a smaller container and limit airspace as you suggest. And I could see just what I do have in there.

What was strange is that there was a big burst of coagulation, which then stopped. Kinda like some self-catalyzing accelerant chain-reacted and then was exhausted. Thats why I wonder about pouring little bits of unused stuff back into the main container.
 
I've had Formby's set up in the 8 os. bottle (with instructions on the label to squeeze the air out before re-capping) but the most recent one I bought has no instructions to that effect, and hasn't set up, even with an airspace about 2" below the cap. There is a warning that it contains "aliphatic hydrocarbons" which I don't recall from older stock, so maybe this is a better thinner.
Glad the Armor All worked for you - it has given some nice effects on several different types of finishes.
The wood you describe sounds like the same as that on my villager. Almost seems softer than Saatisal (cuts faster when sanded) takes oil well, and has a black stripe against the maroon base color. Can't verify it as Hill Walnut, but who cares - It is Grade A exotic, in any Woodchuck's book.
I've only finished one chiruwa handled Khuk (M43) and did no metal removal on the handle. I used steel wool exclusively on this one (the wood grain had been eroded when the handle was buffed, and I wanted that texture to stay). I got all the metal off (very small amount) with a soft toothbrush before I started oiling the wood. Maybe some masking tape (?) The adhesive should wipe off the oiled surface when the metalwork is complete.
I didn't know Murphy's had a "multi-purpose" version (something new every day keeps the rest home attendants away :)) My opinion of them after using the older, thick concentrate is that if it is Murphy's, it couldn't hoit:D
 
Many oil-based finishes tend to gunk up in the can. Besides the previously mentioned fixes, you can fill the container with an inert gas that has no oxygen in it. I use a commercial product called Bloxygen that gives metered spritzes. It's expensive, but so is tung oil. And if you want to thin out tung oil, use mineral spirits. Most of the tung oil I've seen over the years really needs thinning before you apply it, unless you're really in love with elbow grease.
 
Any idea whether sunlight accelerates tung oil polymerization? I think things started to thicken up after I worked outside in the nice sunshine and then poured the unused cap contents back into the can.
 
That's a strong possibility - all the tung oil products I have are in opaque containers. BTW - The Tru Oil will also harden,a thick film over the surface of what is in the bottle. Just store it cap-down, and run hot water over the cap if it really sets up hard on the bottle rim.
 
Thanks, all for information on the tung oil. Easier to try to learn from the voice of experience, even though it might be harder to forget what's learned through my own screw-ups.


Walosi,
****
"The wood you describe sounds like the same as that on my villager. Almost seems softer than Saatisal (cuts faster when sanded) takes oil well, and has a black stripe against the maroon base color. Can't verify it as Hill Walnut, but who cares - It is Grade A exotic, in any Woodchuck's book."
****

Yes, you've perfectly described this wood. I'd really love to have a khuk handled with the stuff. Nice contrast to the saatisal-handles too.

Haven't seen Fomby's tung oil yet, but I have seen their wax remover. Have you used it? I'm thinking of waxing up a couple of handles that don't have fully complete grain fill, but I'll probably want to get more oil/ArmorAll onto them later someday.
 
firkin, I've only used their tung oil (high and low gloss) and a couple of stains. Most of the handles I've finished (or think I am through with for a while) get a coat of Johnson's Paste Wax. Raj, at Eagle grips, told me several years ago that this is all they use to finish their Indian Rosewood (from family owned growth) pistol grips. It will steel-wool off, and the Tru Oil or Tung Oil will blend with any that is left in the grain. It is a bit gummy if you don't wool enough of it off on the first try, but it will come off after oiling, with a rag. I usually put two to four coats on a hardened oil finish, with Armor All in between to smooth them out and bind. If the finish gets cloudy with use, just shine it up on your jeans (Raj's exact words :D).
 
Wal, many thanks yet again!

More handy tips that I don't know that I could find anywhere else. I assume that you dry and buff out the wax coats before using the magic ArmorAll? (Yet another use for this secret ingredient)?

And, slob that I am, I polish everything on my jeans or T-shirt, glad to hear that it's recommended!!!
 
I apply the wax (very thin coat) and wait about 15 minutes or so, and put the Armor All on with a fingertip (just wet it, and smooth it as far as it will go, and repeat, like a spit-shine). It takes the wax a bit longer to set this way, and a bit more rubbing to get it up to gloss, but it is harder-surfaced, IMO. If your application isn't smooth (ridges or fingerprints) you can prove it to yourself while you're trying to rub them out, and improving your vocabulary :eek:
 
Hey Walosi what do you think of mechanical buffers and finishes. I thought about given it a try, but havent been overly wowed by the results. Found the heat of the buffing wheel problematic. Figure I may be doin it wrong.
 
I've tried a large, soft felt wheel on an old Craftsman hand buffer, with a speed control. No combination of hand pressure and speed that I could come up with would keep the thing consistant. It worked fairly well (no burning or gouging) on dry wood, to buff it up for applying finish, but I could never get the shine "even", across the entire surface. After a finish was applied, it was just a sloppy stripper.
Doing the entire thing by hand allows your hand-eye coordination to develop a sense of consistancy, and adapt across the grain variations (I thimk, as they used to say at IBM). There is no way humanly possible that your bare hand can apply an even pressure, motion, etc., across the entire surface of the piece you are working. Still, the hand-finished piece will have an evenness that makes it immediately identifiable when set next to a machine-finished job. Slower is gooder :D
 
So Im not the only one with a magical stripping buffer :D I must admit I didnt really expect much from it, but thought Id give it a shot to see if there was something I was missing. I guess its back to the tried and true ways.
 
I showed the dust bunnies this thread and they just scratched their heads and went back under the bed mumbling to themselves.
 
My bottle of Tru-Oil froze up on me a few weeks back. I couldent open it due to the oil hardening in the cap. So, I drilled a hole in it and squeezed out all the contents into an old (clean) mayo jar. The I learned the hard way a few days later when I went to go oil some kuks and found the stuff had hardened into a film across the surface of the oil.

I removed all the film I could, some is still sticking to the sides of the jar, and poured a little boiled linseed oil and turpentine/ spirits in there with the tru-oil. So far I have had no problems with it hardening inside the jar. The resulting "tru-oil" is a little thinner and sets up in less time. Other than that I havent encountered any problems with application and I think it is doing just fine on top of my other oil finishes.
 
Since we're talking about woodchuck stuff...
I've been faithfully putting the plethora of coats on some handles and it seems that it's taking a few days to completely dry. I've seen the disappearing wood grain ( oh yeah!!!) but now I'm getting impatient to do more.
 
Roger -
Puzzled :confused: Humidity here runs between 40% and "walls sweating", and a coat of Tru Oil or Formby's will usually dry anywhere from overnight to two days. Grand Junction, IIRC, is considered swampy when the humidity goes above 20%. I dab a fingertip in the upturned cap (just a drop) and spread it as thinly over the widest area that I can, Then I repeat on an adjacent area, with minimum overlap. When I've covered the entire piece this way, with no gaps, it will dry overnight.Two days (if it is continually raining) is about max. Armor All, after about two coats of oil, can speed up drying time a bit if you use it just like a spit-shine on shoes. When the oil is gummy (after about an hour) spritz some on a finger tip, shake off any excess, and rub the oil surface smooth. Drying time, no matter how you cut it, is the bugbear of hand finishing. I've had the first two coats on a Hickory cane take four days each to set up, and never figured out why. The wood was totally seasoned, hard as marble, and the cane was hanging in dry air being circulated by an AC vent. Guess that is why hand finishing is an art, and not a science :D
 
Wal,
I'm confused too.
Other wood handles are perfect. They dry fast and are looking like glass.
The Malla I got is what I'm referring to. Nearly black on one side and deeeeep red on the other. The grain is the the deepest on this handle vs. my others.
I'm having a hard time getting them filled in. I've tried sanding when the coat is gummy and when dry. Everything has followed the usual course but this one. It stays slightly sticky by the 3rd day. I'll try no AA for a few coats.
 
Maybe this is a different kind of wood. Color sounds a lot like the chakma handle I mentioned above... but if anything, that one is going better for me so far.

Bruise's (I think) lignum vitae thread had mention of dense oily woods that didn't absorb more oil very well. If you've not read it, maybe some help there.

EDIT:

I did do several scrubbings with Murphy's (multiuse version) and a fine wire brush (light touch with the brush!). I noticed on the first handle I did which I soaped out and started over with that it absorbed a lot more oil after the Murphy treatment. Maybe that's why my similar-sounding maroon/black wood doesn't have the problem your does??
 
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