WooHoo! My 2021 Kitchen Kith Knife Arrived.

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
I got my knife about 2 weeks ago, but I was out of town for a week right after I got it. This is an interesting knife for a kitchen knife, definitely non-traditional. It is beautifully finished, perfectly symmetrical, and it has a beautiful hamon.


(I got locked out of my image hosting, so I’m trying this one out. I don’t think this is a valid solution.)


Nick said public feedback is fine, as he’s a newer maker, and wants to learn.

as I already said, this is a beautiful knife, but some of the design features detract from its performance in the kitchen. The blade is quite thick for a kitchen knife, and there is little distal taper. I think it’s 1/8” stock. That makes it fairly heavy, and it is tip heavy. The belly profile is more western than Japanese, so it requires quite a bit more lift at the handle for rocking. That isn’t a criticism, just a consideration when choosing western or japanese profiles. The drop handle results in little knuckle clearance above the cutting board. The edge is sharp, but more in the realm of hunting knife, rather than a thin kitchen knife.

Please don’t take this to mean I don’t like the knife. It is a fine blade, and it will be used regularily. It will find a home in our camping kit, as the knife can be used for a lot more than just kitchen tasks. It prepped food at the cabin better than any of the knives that other family members left there. Nick, if you’d like, I can send you a blade blank rough ground to finish and put a handle on, so you can get a sense of the thinness that I typically use on a kitchen knife. I’ll even provide a drilled Wa handle to attach once finished.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
144
I got my knife about 2 weeks ago, but I was out of town for a week right after I got it. This is an interesting knife for a kitchen knife, definitely non-traditional. It is beautifully finished, perfectly symmetrical, and it has a beautiful hamon.


(I got locked out of my image hosting, so I’m trying this one out. I don’t think this is a valid solution.)


Nick said public feedback is fine, as he’s a newer maker, and wants to learn.

as I already said, this is a beautiful knife, but some of the design features detract from its performance in the kitchen. The blade is quite thick for a kitchen knife, and there is little distal taper. I think it’s 1/8” stock. That makes it fairly heavy, and it is tip heavy. The belly profile is more western than Japanese, so it requires quite a bit more lift at the handle for rocking. That isn’t a criticism, just a consideration when choosing western or japanese profiles. The drop handle results in little knuckle clearance above the cutting board. The edge is sharp, but more in the realm of hunting knife, rather than a thin kitchen knife.

Please don’t take this to mean I don’t like the knife. It is a fine blade, and it will be used regularily. It will find a home in our camping kit, as the knife can be used for a lot more than just kitchen tasks. It prepped food at the cabin better than any of the knives that other family members left there. Nick, if you’d like, I can send you a blade blank rough ground to finish and put a handle on, so you can get a sense of the thinness that I typically use on a kitchen knife. I’ll even provide a drilled Wa handle to attach once finished.
Hey Willie71 Willie71

Thanks so much for taking the time and providing feedback. Really appreciate it. Invaluable advice.

Grind wise a workhorse style grind was definately more what I was aiming for as I though it suited the style and theme of the knife. When you talk thickness do you mean bte or spine & taper? (or a bit of both?) there is a reasonable amount of convex and it is my first attempt at a plungless grind so will definatley be thicker lower towards the edge than the same stock with a plunge.

I ran into issues getting much distal in this with the step up "clip" as I push stick grind and usually taper as I go. I have changed how I grind in taper now doing a 3/4 bevel then tapering the spine to desired then blending and thinning. Seems to be working much better. On high carbon would you grind distal in pre or post ht usually? Struggle with heat build up a little grinding it in post ht.

Good point on the handle, I do test them on the board after profiling but thinking about it only really ever with a pinch grip, so really need to test both grips.

I personally prefer a Japanese edge profile (I don't really rock chop) but wanted to try a rocker/euro profile as somthing different. Do you think I could get away with a bit less belly and still have a decent euro/rocker profile?

Thanks again man, camping kit should be a great spot for that knife to serve
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
Hey Willie71 Willie71

Thanks so much for taking the time and providing feedback. Really appreciate it. Invaluable advice.

Grind wise a workhorse style grind was definately more what I was aiming for as I though it suited the style and theme of the knife. When you talk thickness do you mean bte or spine & taper? (or a bit of both?) there is a reasonable amount of convex and it is my first attempt at a plungless grind so will definatley be thicker lower towards the edge than the same stock with a plunge.

I ran into issues getting much distal in this with the step up "clip" as I push stick grind and usually taper as I go. I have changed how I grind in taper now doing a 3/4 bevel then tapering the spine to desired then blending and thinning. Seems to be working much better. On high carbon would you grind distal in pre or post ht usually? Struggle with heat build up a little grinding it in post ht.

Good point on the handle, I do test them on the board after profiling but thinking about it only really ever with a pinch grip, so really need to test both grips.

I personally prefer a Japanese edge profile (I don't really rock chop) but wanted to try a rocker/euro profile as somthing different. Do you think I could get away with a bit less belly and still have a decent euro/rocker profile?

Thanks again man, camping kit should be a great spot for that knife to serve
For kitchen knives, I usually start at 3/32, or even 1/16” stock. If I use 3/32, I do a pretty defined taper. I’ll break out the calipers and scale tomorrow, and give you some dimensions to go by.

I really do like the knife. Very few I get in Kiths are this symmetrical or well finished. You just need more practise seeing how thin you can go and still have a durable knife. You are well on your way. It takes some practise to “unlearn” what works well in a hunter, skinner, or camp knife. It really is a different way of doing things.

yes, you can use less belly.

on blades less than 1/8” thick, I profile, heat treat, then grind post heat treat. Unless I’m going for a hamon, then I do a sablre grind pre heat treat, clay, then heat treat. I finish the grind post heat treat.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
311
Grinding thinner has definitely been hard to wrap my brain around. The knife I received is super thin, and the feedback I got on the one I made was to go thinner. This was definitely a good learning experience for me.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
I had a few crisis calls today. I’ll try to post some measurements tomorrow.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
I got some measurements from Nick’s knife, and the knife I will be sending to Hubert. I had to go back to the grinder on Huberts, as I made a mistake, and hand sanded it before I finished the grind. I forgot where I was at with this one, as I started it a long time ago. There were a lot of spots with decarb after etching to see the hamon. Sorry Hubert. Shouldn’t be more than a week to get it finished up now though.

so, Nicks knife is 1.05” thick at the spihe, Huberts is 0.90” both are a fine starting point. I thought Nicks was 0.125, but it isn’t.

Where we see our first difference is in the distal taper. I set the calipers to 0.070”, and took a pic of where that was on the spine.

GTH26oj.jpg


on the thinner knife, this is where 0.070” is.

nKnaIiM.jpg



The thinner knife is less than 1/16” in the front 1=3 of the knife, down to 0.045 near the tip.

The next measurement is how high up is 0.030”?

qlUrmhw.jpg


Vg2Uj4i.jpg




And for comparison, how high up is 0.50”?

cwDpNUY.jpg


fwFmjxM.jpg


Just thought to add. Hubert’s knife isn’t really thin yet. It’s a good mid range geometry. I will go thinner than this often, especially with experienced customers. This geometry is a good starting point to work from.
 
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FredyCro

Basic Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
946
Thats a great comparison of thicknesses. Nick's knife will make a great BBQ knife or a hard use chefs knife, i bet it wouldnt mind chopping some fish bones and/or meat cartilage. I bet that any serious chef has that one meaty knife thats gonna get the job done. Design and handlewise I like it a lot.

I push my grinds as well and realize that thinner stock and thinner grind is not always necessary a good thing. Warrens knife looks like a great allround though.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
144
Really interesting comparison thanks Warren.

I've never really focused/measured the thickness on the bevel pushing up into the spine, only really directly behind the edge and the spine itself.
As an exercise I measured a couple of other knives knives, one finished prior to the army chef and one finished after. A nakiri made form the same W2 stock , but ground with a plunge, and a 1095 bunka/ktip from 090 stock.

Both are quite a bit thinner in cross section than the green knife.
Bunka here at 50 thou
5tqnPPD.jpg


I put quite a bit more convex on the green knife, starting on the leather backed platen much earlier, thinking about it now it only makes sense that it carries its thickness closer to the edge. To my eye it still looked pretty thin but the calipers tell another story entirely! This has given me another couple of metrics to measure&track during grinding. Very worth while!
ZOk0Y7V.jpg


Thanks again team. Ill do some practical cutting tests with my knife when it turns up....
 
Last edited:

FredyCro

Basic Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
946
Really interesting comparison thanks Warren.

I've never really focused/measured the thickness on the bevel pushing up into the spine, only really directly behind the edge and the spine itself.
As an exercise I measured a couple of other knives knives, one finished prior to the army chef and one finished after. A nakiri made form the same W2 stock , but ground with a plunge, and a 1095 bunka/ktip from 090 stock.

Both are quite a bit thinner in cross section than the green knife.
Bunka here at 50 thou
5tqnPPD.jpg


I put quite a bit more convex on the green knife, starting on the leather backed platen much earlier, thinking about it now it only makes sense that it carries its thickness closer to the edge. To my eye it still looked pretty thin but the calipers tell another story entirely! This has given me another couple of metrics to measure&track during grinding. Very worth while!
ZOk0Y7V.jpg


Thanks again team. Ill do some practical cutting tests with my knife when it turns up....
Another good tip is to take that measurment as you go forward the tip as well. The taper should also be reflected in that measurement.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
Really interesting comparison thanks Warren.

I've never really focused/measured the thickness on the bevel pushing up into the spine, only really directly behind the edge and the spine itself.
As an exercise I measured a couple of other knives knives, one finished prior to the army chef and one finished after. A nakiri made form the same W2 stock , but ground with a plunge, and a 1095 bunka/ktip from 090 stock.

Both are quite a bit thinner in cross section than the green knife.
Bunka here at 50 thou
5tqnPPD.jpg


I put quite a bit more convex on the green knife, starting on the leather backed platen much earlier, thinking about it now it only makes sense that it carries its thickness closer to the edge. To my eye it still looked pretty thin but the calipers tell another story entirely! This has given me another couple of metrics to measure&track during grinding. Very worth while!
ZOk0Y7V.jpg


Thanks again team. Ill do some practical cutting tests with my knife when it turns up....
This has been my main focus on doing kiths. Your finish work is excellent. There is no need to focus more on that. The knife felt thicker to me than the steel thickness suggested, which is why I thought it was 0.125”. You learned something through this, and others did too. It is a beautiful knife, and will be used for heavier tasks for sure. It’s better geometry than most store bought knives, but with your skills, you can definitely make a finer slicer.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
I measured this one, and it’s about the same thickness as the one I’m making for Hubert. It’s just prettier. Huberts has a hamon, so we will se if it’s bland or wow once polished.

PhRqa3j.jpg
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
144
I measured this one, and it’s about the same thickness as the one I’m making for Hubert. It’s just prettier. Huberts has a hamon, so we will se if it’s bland or wow once polished.

PhRqa3j.jpg
The cloudyness of that sanmai looks awesome!

I have a chunk of v toku2 sanmai to play with, hopefully can make something fairly. Interesting looking
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,159
The cloudyness of that sanmai looks awesome!

I have a chunk of v toku2 sanmai to play with, hopefully can make something fairly. Interesting looking
Some light tapping with the hammer at forging heat will help create this. It didn't take a lot. I’ll see if I have some pics after light forging to see the minimal deformation of the rectangular billet to see what I did.
 
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