ZT 560 Initial Thoughts VIDEO

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bobnery

Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
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Well I just unboxed the 560 and....... Well I was really looking forward to this knife but I do have a couple things that maybe sending me to the exchange quick on this one.

First lock up is good and the knife is solid, but it reminds me of the Griptilian in feel some what on the G10 side remember this is my opinion, but with the milling I guess it makes it a bit hollow feeling. This won't affect function at all, but something that always bugged me on the BM Grip

Second it has been awhile since I owned a flipper and need to adjust when closing because the flipper definitely is in the way of how I usually close. This is a personal adjustment that I am sure is no biggie.

Third as you can see in video the geometry of build makes thumbstud opening way hard, I thought this would be possible for me because I am used to stiff knives like Striders. You can see in the video it deploys easily if I pinch blade lower than studs though. I know some of you are saying right now so what IT"S A FLIPPER well the importance of the thumb stud use is in my last point..

Fourth AND THIS MAYBE JUST MINE the edges on the jimping both on top and bottom are like saw teeth. In the video you can hear audible discomfort as I open it. The edges all around are pretty rough but the jimping and choli area are the worst. You may be saying right now I have tender hands, but I work outside with my hands year round and they are pretty thick skinned and these edges hurt. This to me is why I'd like the thumbstud operation, after a few flips I am over the flipper for the day.

I will fondle this today and decide. It maybe on exchange tonight or tomorrow though.

This video was shot as soon as it came out of box. Literally first minutes with knife in hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfNTiLPupTA
 
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Nice vid. Silent vids aren't favorite tho. I'd much rather hear something said about the knife than just seeing it. I would have liked to hear comments from you pro and con.





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Work smarter not harder
You can't fix stupid
 
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Silent aren't my thing either, but when I hear my southern drawl it scares me:) I decided to put it on the exchange. Its just not my thing. ZT makes some great knives, but this one I think I'm going to pass on. I've sold knives that I LOVED when I first put them in hand, and with this much doubt early on I think it'll probably not grow on me. I figured I'd go ahead and sell while I can make a buck on it. (Hate me if you want:)) I'm going to keep the pre order on 561 and see if I feel any different, but doubt it, so that one may go up on exchange too.
 
Do you have an 0550, 0551? Interested in your opinions on which you prefer and why?
 
Hands down I prefer 0550 over the brick G10 of 0551. I don't think this one is comparable in feel at all to the 055x series, they are more squat and compact and feel more substantial in hand. This one while solid feels very different in hand than any other knife I have or had. Like I mention it feels like a Griptilian on steroids, while I don't mean that as an insult there was just something about the Grip that I could never connect with. This knife is a good answer to a light overbuild offering from ZT and after seeing the G10 first hand I would wonder if an aftermarket scale would be available by Hinderer, it seems too engineered to be easily replaced and still have sound F andF
 
Thanks for the video.

Wow, it does sound like a Griptilian. The hollow resonance is very similar.
 
What we've heard with regards to ZT was on size and weight. While many of you like the overbuilt aspect, the 0200's and 0300's were to big, thick and heavy for everyday carry. In evaluating these responses, we came to the conclusion that we would attempt at similar type products but with the intent to sacrifice the thick, and heavy. We felt we could capture full size but make like easier to carry from a weight and girth standpoint.

The Tilt was really the first full sized knife that we set out to do this to, and feel it turned out fantastic. Like with every design, it's not for everyone, but there is no denying that for it's size, it's a bit of a welterweight with all the top flight materials and technology included. Goal achieved.

The 0560 is in this genre as well. Compare it to it's cousin the 0550. The 0550 is tough, thick, weighty, and blocky Everything we've all come to expect from a knife in this category. Almost all fit this description. With the 0560 we wanted it to be different from it's relative and competition. We put it on a diet. We removed a lot of Ti with the 3-D machining. Large portions of the liner material disappeared. No beefy backspacer. The result was a knife that brings everything to the table that we're all used to, in a package that is as strong, yet sleeker, faster, and dare I say smarter than the what we've seen in the past. We could have done the same, same, but felt this was the direction based on your call.

This piece will feel different, and I believe some will not understand it at first. We've all been programmed from the past, and the Tilt, 0560, and upcoming 0777 go against that regular grain. They are different animals, a new breed of which I believe will be the trend going forward.

I've felt KVT to give the walk/talk a completely different feel. I didn't initially like it. Now I don't want to carry any knife without it.

Knife evolution and technology needs time. Time to understand, evaluate, and ultimately accept.
 
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Disagree to some extent. Like you said Thomas not all knives all for all people but to say that the buyer needs to learn to like something is a bit of a stretch. I am not slamming anything about the 560 just pointing out things that aren't my flavor. The 560 I think would've been a home run with with me if a concealed carry finish as opposed to a gunner grip and remove G10 side liner and thicken the G10. That's my opinion though and opinions are like butts we all have one. I'm sure it's going to be a huge hit for ZT but it just wasn't what I expected.
 
bobnery said:
Disagree to some extent. Like you said Thomas not all knives all for all people but to say that the buyer needs to learn to like something is a bit of a stretch.
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Introduced technology and materials that benefit are here to stay. Like with specific brands, designs, styles, the consumers likes/dislikes for them can vary.

For every consumer that likes a given steel, brand, or feature, there are many that don't. This of course doesn't mean that the steel, brand or feature(s) are bad or a non-factor, just that it doesn't fit this particular buyer.

Whether you specifically like the benefits of a new steel, brand, or improved feature are irrelevant (don't take this as a bad thing :)) in the big picture. The big picture just tells us it's all (steel, brand, feature, etc..) here to stay.

That's all I was saying.

The Tilt, 0560, 0777, are not for everyone, but the genre, category style and technology are here to stay. You can be critical of it, but that comes from a individual IMO standpoint. Discussion of the reasons why are fantastic. Opinions without explanation are worthless.

Personally, it's more important to me that I continue to see the forest for the trees. As enthusiasts I would think you should all feel the same.
 
I think the 3d machined ti and KVT are totally amazing features. The knife might feel suprisingly light when you first pick it up, but it has an amzing feel and balance to it.

If these knives are just as strong as the earlier ZT designs, then that IMO, is an amazing achievement.

The 3d ti is miles more attractive than a certain gunner grip, again IMO. I personally can't find any negatives about this knife, none.

I'm starting to sound like a raving fanboy, so I'm going to shut up now.
 
Personally, I like the "going lighter" though I feel the Tilt went too far. But I do love that ZT is trying to grow and push forward rather than just sticking with the same old same old. However, I would have to ask, why does this have to be the direction moving forward? Why can't ZT produce both? The high-tech light weight knives that are still just as powerful AND the beefy monsters and have that solid weight in your hand? If there is a solid number of customers that want both, can't ZT find some way of making 2 different products?
 
Ore_Ele said:
Personally, I like the "going lighter" though I feel the Tilt went too far. But I do love that ZT is trying to grow and push forward rather than just sticking with the same old same old. However, I would have to ask, why does this have to be the direction moving forward? Why can't ZT produce both? The high-tech light weight knives that are still just as powerful AND the beefy monsters and have that solid weight in your hand? If there is a solid number of customers that want both, can't ZT find some way of making 2 different products?
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That's exactly what we're doing now. The 0200, 03XX, 0550 all fit one style category (overbuilt), and have specific technological features, and the Tilt, 056X, and 0777 fill another genre (full sized welterweights), and have their own set of features.

It's trying keeping everyone happy.:)
 
Thomas W said:
Introduced technology and materials that benefit are here to stay. Like with specific brands, designs, styles, the consumers likes/dislikes for them can vary.

For every consumer that likes a given steel, brand, or feature, there are many that don't. This of course doesn't mean that the steel, brand or feature(s) are bad or a non-factor, just that it doesn't fit this particular buyer.

Whether you specifically like the benefits of a new steel, brand, or improved feature are irrelevant (don't take this as a bad thing :)) in the big picture. The big picture just tells us it's all (steel, brand, feature, etc..) here to stay.

That's all I was saying.

The Tilt, 0560, 0777, are not for everyone, but the genre, category style and technology are here to stay. You can be critical of it, but that comes from a individual IMO standpoint. Discussion of the reasons why are fantastic. Opinions without explanation are worthless.

Personally, it's more important to me that I continue to see the forest for the trees. As enthusiasts I would think you should all feel the same.
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Agreed knives to me are like Hot Chicks at the bar, some are hotter than others, and some you can't wait to get to know. The 560 was a super hot chick I was dying to meet, but when I actually got some one on one time, I found she had a laugh that just drove me crazy, it doesn't detract from her hotness, but definitely someone I could not be in a long term relationship with. Maybe her lighter headed sister (561) will be able to wooo me past the laugh they share.
 
Bob -

You are always entitled to your own opinion, and you have expressed that it's not your cup of tea. No problem. It's good for us to what people like and also what they dislike. We do the best we can to take in these influences and distill them into something that people want.

As weight is concerned, some people like more heft, and some people don't. However, I rarely hear that a knife weighing less is a true dealbreaker. I don't think it's that big of a stretch to say that the lighter weight might grow on people.

AS to removing the liner and thickening the G-10, there are ways around this, but the liner actually serves as a bearing surface for the ball bearing washers. Out of curiosity, what do you think would be the advantage of thicker G-10 vs G-10 and a liner?

The overall point is that the customer has something new to get used to.
 
Thomas W said:
That's exactly what we're doing now. The 0200, 03XX, 0550 all fit one style category (overbuilt), and have specific technological features, and the Tilt, 056X, and 0777 fill another genre (full sized welterweights), and have their own set of features.

It's trying keeping everyone happy.:)
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Do if ZT will come out with NEW knives in the "overbuilt" group? Or will all NEW knives be "full sized welters" and you'll just continue sell the old "overbuilt" ones? I understand if you can't say what will or might be coming in the future, but would you at least be able to say that "overbuilt" is still on the table when designing new knives?

As a disclaimer for myself, I do not rule out buying any "full size welters" (I plan on getting the 0777 at least), but I would sad if it was determined that no new "overbuilts" would ever come out of ZT anymore.
 
P1GEONPOO said:
The knife might feel suprisingly light when you first pick it up, but it has an amzing feel and balance to it.

If these knives are just as strong as the earlier ZT designs, then that IMO, is an amazing achievement.
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You hit on the key elements of the weight issue here - strength and balance. The goal is to take away weight, but maintain strength and balance, and these ideas were heavy on our minds when we made the decision to core out the liner and titanium back handle. If the balance had been off, we would have made some adjustments. Despite coring out the Titanium, the knife is still stronger than it ever needs to be.


Ore_Ele said:
Do if ZT will come out with NEW knives in the "overbuilt" group? Or will all NEW knives be "full sized welters" and you'll just continue sell the old "overbuilt" ones? I understand if you can't say what will or might be coming in the future, but would you at least be able to say that "overbuilt" is still on the table when designing new knives?

As a disclaimer for myself, I do not rule out buying any "full size welters" (I plan on getting the 0777 at least), but I would sad if it was determined that no new "overbuilts" would ever come out of ZT anymore.
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We are not ruling out the idea that there will be future ZT knives that are heavy like an 0300. We're just saying that we will continue to push for new technology to make the knives better.

Remember, weight does not always equal strength - the fact that the 0560 is not heavy does not mean that it is not overbuilt.

Think of it like an I-Beam - light yet strong.
 
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jimmer_5 said:
We are not ruling out the idea that there will be future ZT knives that are heavy like an 0300. We're just saying that we will continue to push for new technology to make the knives better.

Remember, weight does not always equal strength - the fact that the 0560 is not heavy does not mean that it is not overbuilt.

Think of it like an I-Beam - light yet strong.
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I think another part might be that the light weight stuff takes getting use to. I'm not sure how many people want to spend $250+ on a knife that they have to get use to. Maybe the 0750 and 0780 might help to break that barrier (not excatly big knives, but they are pretty light).

Anyway, just my 2 cents (over priced, I know).
 
bobnery said:
Silent aren't my thing either, but when I hear my southern drawl it scares me:) I decided to put it on the exchange. Its just not my thing. ZT makes some great knives, but this one I think I'm going to pass on. I've sold knives that I LOVED when I first put them in hand, and with this much doubt early on I think it'll probably not grow on me. I figured I'd go ahead and sell while I can make a buck on it. (Hate me if you want:)) I'm going to keep the pre order on 561 and see if I feel any different, but doubt it, so that one may go up on exchange too.
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I have a Strider SNG GG. I like it because it is thin, which makes it nicer to carry, and I like it because it’s light. Thin, light, and strong, a great combo.

However, it is not comfortable to use for extended heavy cutting because of the handle design. The handle digs into my hand more than other knives. I also doesn’t sound very solid due to the overall handle design features. It doesn’t sound hollow and cheap like a Griptillian, (I love Grips BTW), but it does have some resonance.

Overall, I like the SNG very much, which is why I still have it.

I also have an XM-18. I like it because it has a thicker handle and is very comfortable to use for extended heavy cutting. It looks and sounds very solid. In fact, it is easily the most solid feeling folder I own. The workmanship is a notch above the clones.

However, it is not particularly thin or light, (5.6oz), which makes it less desirable to carry.

Both of these knives are no doubt more durable than I am and unless I do something totally stupid, I have no fear of ever breaking them.

I like both of these knives despite the downsides. However, I have had other very nice folders that I just couldn’t warm up to.

Like Bobnery says, sometimes there are things that you just don’t like about knives. It doesn’t mean they’re bad, it just means that they aren’t what you thought they’d be. Sounds like he hasn’t talked himself into liking something, just because everybody else does. Good for him.

I don’t care for Sebenzas, not because they are bad knives, they just bore me to death and offer me no gee-whiz features.

Where is my pre-order $103 ZT 0780? I think I am going to like that knife very much. But, if I don't, I won't fool myself into liking it.
 
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