$250 for a taiwan knife?

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four_shore said:
have you ever even handled one of their taiwan made knives? the QC is top notch. the sage series alone proves that there is no lack of quality coming from their manufacturers overseas. a titanium framelock with cts-204p steel and a bearing system is not going to be 50 bucks...get over it.
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Thats fine that the knife quality is top notch. Even with the materials being better quality than that of many chinese and taiwan offerings the knife is still overpriced. If other companies can produce the same type of knife with comparable materials in the USA then Id have to say that the spyderco product is overpriced. And if people who dont agree with it dont voice their opinion then it means they have less and less reason to keep producing products in the USA.

Edited to add: you may take your own advice and get over yourself and your blind faith.
 
I think some people are missing the US made point. I will disclose that I own the chineese made tenacious and am amazed at quality for cost. If they made that knife with vg10 I'd buy 5 more. I own the Gayler Bradley from Taiwan the quality is phenominal. Ihave nothing against Taiwan or its politics. China I have nothing against its people but their government can sucked eggs as they constantly steel US intellectual property which is about almost all the US actually produces anymore. We are loosing the few manufacturing jobs we have left in this country to other countries. I try to buy as many American products as possible but with Spyderco making so many awesome knives outside the US they don't make it easy.
 
I would rather it be made in the U.S.A. I like buying products made here, to support my fellow citizens. I'll leave it at that. I think that was his point.
 
first off, this seems like a troll thread..second imho Taiwan makes higher fit and finish knives then either of the other locations. Third, Taiwan is a democratic nation. They have similar if not HIGHER wages then the U.S. and Japan. Last but not least, IF YOU DON NOT LIKE IT NOT BEING "MERICAN" THEN DO NOT BUY IT. means i have a better chance of getting one with you out of the way
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen guys, you got me wrong. I dont mind that its a taiwan made knife. I own a few import knives because usually they are a good bargain. But what I dont agree with is making something in taiwan or china and charging the same price as a knife made in america. There are a couple other companies that come to mind that produce both in the USA and overseas. The difference is that those companies price their product accordingly. If any of you think that producing something in Taiwan is anything other than cost cutting and increasing profit margins then your diluting yourself. Now people can act like a Spydie fanboy all they want. The fact of the matter is that positive feedback is not the only feedback that helps a company understand the demand of the public. But some of you have made it perfectly clear that you will swallow whatever spyderco feeds you. Hope you like the taste of chinese because it looks like your gonna be eating a lot of it. The funny thing is though is your gonna be eating ramen noodles on a steak budget. Enjoy!
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Priced accordingly....with the same materials such as CPM-M4? Please send me a link!

The US $ is not doing well against eastern currency. The $ is actually lower due to the gloabal economy so guess what. You will have to pay more.

You thanked Kershaw, KAI USA for making products in US. Ummmm.. Spyderco Golden models? They are made in US. Why not thank them? Did you forget KAI is a Japanese company? You don't complain about that? KAI as a whole is probably 3 times the size of Spyderco. I love Kershaw and Spyderco but really, don't fool yourself both make models outside of the US and once again. Please send me a link to a Kershaw with a CPM-M4 blade or similar at a much cheaper price point than I can find a Spyderco Gayle Bradley for excample for $170 easily.
 
To lazy to edit my above post but wanted to ad:

Both Kershaw and Spyderco have done amazing things for the cutlery industry and I hate to compare them. They have different ideas but both make outstanding products.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen guys, you got me wrong. I dont mind that its a taiwan made knife. I own a few import knives because usually they are a good bargain. But what I dont agree with is making something in taiwan or china and charging the same price as a knife made in america. There are a couple other companies that come to mind that produce both in the USA and overseas. The difference is that those companies price their product accordingly. If any of you think that producing something in Taiwan is anything other than cost cutting and increasing profit margins then your diluting yourself. Now people can act like a Spydie fanboy all they want. The fact of the matter is that positive feedback is not the only feedback that helps a company understand the demand of the public. But some of you have made it perfectly clear that you will swallow whatever spyderco feeds you. Hope you like the taste of chinese because it looks like your gonna be eating a lot of it. The funny thing is though is your gonna be eating ramen noodles on a steak budget. Enjoy!
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Have you read half the posts here? The knife from Taiwan is marked up the same percentage as the knife made in Golden. It is a fixed percentage markup. They are not making more for the knife made in Taiwan than if it was made in Golden (percentage wise). They are making the same amount because they take the price it takes to make the knife and mark it up the same fixed percent amount no matter where it is made. If it were made in the US, it would cost more because it would cost more to make and then be marked up the same percentage making the total price more expensive. Does that make any sense to you?
 
What position do you have CFO/CMO? Product Line manager? They let you telecommute huh - that's awesome!

It would be cool to work in the knife industry.
 
So you are saying Sal is a liar? If you believe that, then why would you buy any knife from Spyderco?
 
If someone is so stupid as to equate all "overseas" knives together, or confuse Taiwan and China (or lump them together), then there is no argument that will change those predjudices.

If someone thinks that knives are produced in Taiwan solely "because it's cheaper" (despite what Sal - the man in charge of Spyderco has said), then again - there is no arguing with those pre-disposed ideas that have no basis.

The comments about perception being more important than quality (and about German cars) are completely laughable.

Also, Spyderco has never insisted that this knife is US-made (or represented it as anything other than what it is). No surprises there.

Since when does American pride involve refusing to buy nice (or even in some cases, superior) products made elsewhere in the world? Doesn't that bring the quality of American products down due to not having to compete with anyone?

These threads make about as much sense as "Why would anyone pay $100 for a knife that wasn't purple?".
 
What position do you have CFO/CMO? Product Line manager? They let you telecommute huh - that's awesome!

It would be cool to work in the knife industry.
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If you have evidence to discredit FlaMtnBkr or anybody else then give it to us. Trying to be clever without anything else is a waste of time.

Purpledc, you seem to have fallen further and further behind.

Oh, Btw, Kai /Kershaw/ZT is probably 10 times the size of Spyderco. Spyderco I believe is in the 30's for the number of employees. It's a family business and most of the employees there I've spoken to are wearing multiple hats, ie: doing more than one job. Hey, does that make them "fanboys" too? :)
 
Interesting that this topic should come up now. Two Saturdays ago I trekked on down to NGK. I had enough money with me to buy pretty much whatever I wanted. I looked at and handled a lot of knives. I ended up with three Spydercos. A Dragonfly 2 (FRN/VG10), a Native 5 and a Sage 4. Both the Native and the Sage are strong heavy duty folders with great fit and finish. The Native (made in America) was less money than the Sage (not made in America). I am very happy with both the Native and the Sage and plan to use them for a long time. The Dragonfly was for a co-worker who is also very pleased with it.

I held the Sage 3 and came close to getting it but decided on the Sage 4 I guess because I was in the mood for a lock back. Anyway, the Sage 3 was definitely more comfortable in the hand than the Bradley Alias 1 which I also tried. I know this is a subjective thing and others might like the Bradley better. The titanium Sage 3 is one heck of a knife and was a bit less expensive than the Bradley.

For me, the Taiwan made Spydercos are worth the money.
 
Only overpriced in one location, and that would be under the bridge. :rolleyes:

PURPLEDC said:
Thats fine that the knife quality is top notch. Even with the materials being better quality than that of many chinese and taiwan offerings the knife is still overpriced. If other companies can produce the same type of knife with comparable materials in the USA then Id have to say that the spyderco product is overpriced. And if people who dont agree with it dont voice their opinion then it means they have less and less reason to keep producing products in the USA.

Edited to add: you may take your own advice and get over yourself and your blind faith.
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Browning also makes several of the fixed blades in Taiwan and they are top notch for their price range. And just so you know-Taiwan is NOT China! The QC and the American companies who make stuff their use the exact same steel, etc that they would here in the US they just get cheaper labor. If you look online for the article Tactical Knives wrote about the Brownings you will see what they said about Taiwan-made knives. That's why the price for some Taiwan stuff is very similar to the American price because aside from the lesser paid worker making the knife everything is the same. I don't know much about spyderco, and the only one I own is a Tenacious and it's either a Taiwan or China and it is of the upmost quality, especially for a $30 knife:thumbup: I don' think a company with as strong and positive of a reputation as Spyderco's would risk disappointing their insanely devoted owners by making a piece of crap and charging that amount of money, it just wouldn't make sense
 
While I have migrated my hobby towards USA made Spydercos & others I am not such a bonehead to realize that the folks Spyderco are contracting in Taichung are anything but skilled, meticulous workers. Every Taichung knife I've had are worth every penny. Who in the hell is going to make such fine knives in the USA for the dollar/quantity Spyderco needs? The Paramilitary is a steal at $100 - not sure how they pull that off. We're not talking about Bangladesh where folks make a grand a year.

Here are some Taiwan facts:
19th largest economy in the world (Purchasing power)
Average wage of entire population - $28, 500 (those with some or college degrees closer to 42k)
Cup of cappucini - $3
Hienieken - $5
Moderate meal - $10
BigMac - $3
ADSL Internet - $33 a month

These aren't peasants working for a pocketful of rice a day and it shows. Business is just that and without profit no one wins. $250 for a completely new design, likely near perfect fit & finish, premium materials is not out of line. You have choices....
 
The Mastiff said:
If you have evidence to discredit FlaMtnBkr or anybody else then give it to us. Trying to be clever without anything else is a waste of time.

Purpledc, you seem to have fallen further and further behind.

Oh, Btw, Kai /Kershaw/ZT is probably 10 times the size of Spyderco. Spyderco I believe is in the 30's for the number of employees. It's a family business and most of the employees there I've spoken to are wearing multiple hats, ie: doing more than one job. Hey, does that make them "fanboys" too? :)
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Costs are variable, demand is variable, exchange rates are variable, commodities are variable...there are a lot of variables. So when I read a statement like the "markup is exactly the same", as a businessman I think - that's great marketing, but nearly impossible to back up.

Sal seems like a nice guy based on the interactions I've seen around here, I've owned a couple of spydercos - they are utterly capable knives. Whatever markup Sal chooses to put on a knife is his business and I don't question it.

What I question is blind faith.

With the internet and forums people begin to feel like they are part of the family...that's great. But don't tell me your balancing the checkbook just because you've seen a few receipts. That's what I was getting at with my post that self admittedly was "smug".
 
I kind of understand, I pretty sure they are made in other countries because it is supposed to bring down the price, Dont get me wrong I love spyderco but it seems like they make them over seas to widen profit margins over bringing down the price for the customer. In other words cheaper to make knife, sell knife for same price as if it where made somewhere where it would cost alot more to make. Just sayin but its obvious that people are willing to pay that much to get that quality, but thats what lets them charge so much for them in the first place. This def. not true with all their knives, but sometimes their prices are kind of WTF moments for me.
 
Costs might vary, but you can't make me believe that Sal can't put together all the costs associated with a run of knives so that he knows the cost per knife. And its not like the knives just trickle in so that variations in costs come into play. They come in a batch of a few hundred at a time and the costs should be the same across the board. When that is the case it is pretty easy to put a set percentage markup on the knife.

Now when the knives get sold and its time to order another large batch, then sure things may have changed and the cost to make might be different. And I'm sure they look and see if the price they charge needs to be adjusted. And since things just keep getting more expensive, they probably end up taking a loss unless they end up raising the price.

Sure there are a few assumptions. But as a businessman how could you think a company doesn't know exactly how much money an item costs to produce. It is also not blind faith. It is restating exactly what Sal has said they do with their business. For what I have said not to be essentially the case, then Sal would have to lie, and I don't buy it. Sure they make knives and it is a business to make money. But Sal has way to much passion for that to be the sole reason. As an engineer, I bet he has a lot of fun doing what he does. They also listen to customers and try to do things that appeal to the buyers and collectors. On top of that, they also donate quite a bit to multiple charities and share their good fortune.

You can call me a fan boy all you want but its not really true other than believing what Sal says. I like other companies more and I have had my fair share of negative things to say about Spyderco. I can look at something objectively and apply that to a discussion.
 
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I think Spyderco is an excellent company that has a high regard and respect for consumer criteria whatever they may be. Their website enables one to browse by Application, Blade Steel, Handle Material and, you guessed it, Country of Origin. All of the Spydercos I've seen have the country of origin clearly marked on the blades. There is no deception. If you don't like one flavour, feel free to choose another! ;) Spyderco makes knives for everyone... :thumbup:

Me, I'll buy quality wherever I can find it. All of the Spydies I own that were made in Taichung Taiwan are fantastic and I'd not hesitate to buy more.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen guys, you got me wrong. I dont mind that its a taiwan made knife. I own a few import knives because usually they are a good bargain. But what I dont agree with is making something in taiwan or china and charging the same price as a knife made in america. There are a couple other companies that come to mind that produce both in the USA and overseas. The difference is that those companies price their product accordingly. If any of you think that producing something in Taiwan is anything other than cost cutting and increasing profit margins then your diluting yourself. Now people can act like a Spydie fanboy all they want. The fact of the matter is that positive feedback is not the only feedback that helps a company understand the demand of the public. But some of you have made it perfepctly clear that you will swallow whatever spyderco feeds you. Hope you like the taste of chinese because it looks like your gonna be eating a lot of it. The funny thing is though is your gonna be eating ramen noodles on a steak budget. Enjoy!
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True that all types of feedback is important for any company. I like it when manufacturing is brought back to the U.S. if it had been outsourced to China.

Those last couple of sentences, however, come across as ignorant due to some belief in nationalistic superiority. It adds nothing at all to your original point.

Also, as has already been mentioned in this thread and countless others, it's REALLY tiring when people continually lump Taiwan and mainland China together. I lived in Taiwan the better part of a decade, and spent time in other countries in the region, too. Taiwan is Taiwan. It's not a country of peasants (not saying all of China is, either). But it seems there's a number of Americans that equate everything made in countries outside of the U.S. or Europe as cheap goods produced in sweatshops. But no matter what anyone says, people will keep thinking or saying "Taiwan=China". Most of the people in other countries seemed to know more about countries other than their own than lots of Americans seem to, I'm sad to say.
Jim
 
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